Design a package....pick your poison??

I was hunting south of Kenya last year...
I'm invited to hunt on a friend's game farm in June in Botswana...
Don't believe everything you read on the press.

AlphaHunter said:

I was hunting south of Kenya last year...
I'm invited to hunt on a friend's game farm in June in Botswana...
Don't believe everything you read on the press.

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Should we not believe what's put out by the government's of those countries? And with a 70% reduction in wildlife since the 70s how could Kenya still be one of the best?

That would be central a north side of Kenya. All south of Kenya is still basically the same as before.

AlphaHunter said:

Best hunting destinations in Africa are still South Africa, Namibia, Botswana and Kenya.

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Keyna? Botswana? HMMMM... Interesting.

One of the things that helps make my decision on who to hunt with is the observer rate. I don't understand some outfits charging $250-300 per day for an observer. My wife, for example, shares my room (chalet). The room doesn't cost the outfitter anything extra as I'm already staying there. That leaves meals and laundry for $250 per day? Offer an observer rate for $50 per day to cover expenses. If I could save $2000 on a ten day hunt that would go a long way for me deciding to hunt with a particular outfit.

Yep agree, don't try to make money off the observer rate. For a lot of guys, if they can bring their wife for just the added airfare may mean the difference in them going or not.

Check out our latest offer in the Deals page.....Observer is FREE (https://www.africahunting.com/threads/warthog-bushpig-night-predator-hunting-package-us-5-550.36531/).

rookhawk said:

I'd personally like to take a "unsafari" looking for the things missing from a usual safari.

I'd like to someday hunt:

Grysbok
Dassie
Porcupine
Civet
Genet
Serval
Caracal
Ostrich
Aardwolf
Jackal
Kori Bustard
(Do some normal bird hunting)

Throw in a strange trophy or two:

Oribi
Dik dik
Suni
Tsessebe
Sitatunga
Croc

Perhaps some Tilapia and Tiger fishing too? Some chessa, Cornish jack and bottle nose?

I think those heading on their 4th-8th safari probably have hunted a lot of variety. They either want to hunt very particular things again and again or they are interested in filling in gaps. A "gap" hunt like above would be interesting and probably very affordable on trophy fees for most of it, allowing for higher daily rates as these species take work to find.

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Ditto that list! Except for the fishing. Sorry but I can fish anytime.
Philip

Philip Glass said:

Ditto that list! Except for the fishing. Sorry but I can fish anytime.
Philip

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@Philip Glass i challenge you on fishing and birds too. I know a lot of people that pass on both in Africa but I think you're leaving a lot of sport on the table. Fly fishing for tiger fish, having a sundowner beer fishing for tilapia, or shore fishing at dusk for Vundu that might be 80 pounds is unique sport. So is pass shooting sand grouse at dusk!

I can't imagine African safari without these highlights, I think of them as often as I think of my buffalo hunt. No American fish or fowl replicates the safari experience.

Thinking this over my thoughts would be for something different than the usual first or second plains game hunt.
Go big and small. So a giraffe on the big side, not usual the first time and on the small not so common side reedbuck, steenbok, grysbok, and klipspringer. Oh, and bush pig. Everyone hunts warthog, not so often for bushpig. Then a day or two driven guinea fowl, sand grouse and some coastal fishing because I don't get those birds or those fish anywhere in the US. Then two full days in Kruger or some other park. I've done three in Etosha and it was great, but I'll admit by day three I'd taken enough pics for a while and wanted to be on my feet hunting again. Given the choice I prefer to see packages with/without observer option, I'm very content to hunt and tour alone.

As far as fishing goes, I'd just assume go to the Amazon for a week and catch peacock bass and catfish.

Africa for the average sportsman is anywhere between a pipedream and 2-3 trips. I think there's enough mammals there to keep one occupied under those circumstances. But I concede the more you go the more you may want to branch out. The outfitters have to be careful and avoid being the jack of all trades and master of none. If someone wants to shoot a couple birds and catch a couple fish, the outfitters might be able to get away with that. It takes true dedication if you want to offer this kind of thing to a serious bird hunter or fisherman.

curtism1234 said:

As far as fishing goes, I'd just assume go to the Amazon for a week and catch peacock bass and catfish.

Africa for the average sportsman is anywhere between a pipedream and 2-3 trips. I think there's enough mammals there to keep one occupied under those circumstances. But I concede the more you go the more you may want to branch out. The outfitters have to be careful and avoid being the jack of all trades and master of none. If someone wants to shoot a couple birds and catch a couple fish, the outfitters might be able to get away with that. It takes true dedication if you want to offer this kind of thing to a serious bird hunter or fisherman.

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So @curtism1234 you've been to Africa fishing and found it lacking? I ask because your analogy of peacock bass is not very similar in experience to my way of thinking?

Here's my take on birds and fish that I think people really miss out on during safaris:

1.) The hunting day is either OVER or you're BROKE or Exhausted by 5pm. That's when the free/included tiger fishing gets exciting. Tiger fishing trips to Africa are easily $10,000-$15,000 affairs on their own, they are usually free with safari for the asking, yet almost nobody wants to do it. That's odd. Probably a hundred thousand people have killed a buffalo with a gun in the history of Africa, yet I strongly wager less than 1000 people have landed tiger fish on a fly. One of the most challenging, powerful sport fish in the freshwater world is there and people pass? Or how about Vundu, a catfish that can go over 100lbs and you can fish for leisurely while waiting for supper...yet most pass on it? In lieu of what activity?

2.) Same time of day, the sandgrouse start to come down the creek beds for pass shooting. I can tell you, having spent tremendous sums of my children's college fund and having killed no less than 10,000 game birds in my lifetime, nothing in America compares to sandgrouse shooting. So free with trip sandgrouse that get shot at a time of day when nothing else is happening on safari gets passed over? People pay $35,000 a weekend for continental driven hunts on Red Grouse that are inferior to the sport available for free or little during a safari that allows 20 minutes a night of sand grouse shooting.

Just my take, but I think hunters make a tremendous miscalculation on their safari itinerary because the best parts of the trip are free or close to it, if only for the asking.

rookhawk said:

So @curtism1234 you've been to Africa fishing and found it lacking? I ask because your analogy of peacock bass is not very similar in experience to my way of thinking?

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I have not. My opinion is similar to the criticisms in your post --- that it's an afterthought. It's my totally ignorant opinion that fishing is not really a serious industry there. I watch a couple tv shows every year and they are tiger fishing; it seems like their success is very hit and miss. I look at some websites and despite a very good price it just doesn't impress me very much when it's half a world away. I'd rather spend my limited time hunting and resting up for the next day's hunt.

I view peacock bass fishing as a true bucket list item and an industry that is taken very seriously (not that there aren't very passionate tiger fishing outfitters, I'm sure there are). I'm in the beginning stages of getting a trip lined up. At this point, there are several outfitters I would not hesitate paying $7000 to.

I totally get that's subjective and quite possible wrong. I think the peacock bass is one of the most beautiful sport fish in the world. To you enthusiastic point though, perhaps I should look into tiger fishing next time.

@curtism1234 Definitely there is some temperament considerations, too. Are you the guy that will pay $5000-$50,000 to chuck flies in New Brunswick, Labrador, Quebec or Russia trying to catch an Atlantic Salmon? That is absolute heartache and limited results! An amazing trip would be two fish. I've never caught one, just funded their tourism industry and shed a lot of tears.

Now if you want action, yes you can do peacock and have a blast. We can also meet up for the price of a case of beer in Miami and fish the canals and ponds catching tons of peacock bass as they are invasive about everywhere. Going to South America to fish for peacock is another matter, but it is really about the travel expense, not the glory of the fish. (rooster fish and others are usually included and actually are more exciting) But again, if you want to go to the amazon its really about the location more than the fish.

Now back to the tigerfish. They can break your heart but not like a salmon or even a steelhead will. If you are planning a fishing trip you'll go at the perfect season for awesome action. If you go during hunting seasons you are probably going to have a so-so experience. I think in maybe 8 hours of fishing here and there during the safari downtime we caught around 8 or so tigers, either 2 or 3 of them by me on a fly and the rest on conventional tackle. This was during cold season where action is supposed to be rather poor. So on the spectrum of prime walleye or bass fishing with one in the boat every 5 minutes, and horrible odds salmon fishing where one in 14 days is amazing, tiger fish in Africa is certainly not bad odds.

The reason you don't see more of it is that it is really, really expensive logistically to get you to the Tigers, not because its boring or hard. It costs almost as much to outfit a fishing trip as a safari and most people won't drop that kind of coin on a fishing trip. That's why I encourage you to consider it on your safari as you're already there and paid up, give it a try. Especially so if you don't think you'll ever come back to do a dedicated fishing trip.

Any interest in a McNab?? Also toying with idea of Croc/BushBok......??

I'm all in for the Kenya and Botswana hunting! Not sure about hunting those Japanese critters even if they are cruisers!

Roan said:

Primery trophys are: Toyota Lande cruiser 4.5 EFI only, dont expect me to shoot lesser cruisers!
Then any land rover we can find just to put it out of it's misery and of course the toyta mini bus as many as we can get.

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This is a classic

I'm disappointed by the lodge mentality of African hunting. I swear if I hear one more rich American rattle the ice in his glass in hope that someone might fetch him a top up...

I'd like to see a return to traditional tented camps. I'd pay more for a tented camp than the pretence of a faux lodge experience. Just a bunch of guys sitting around the campfire chatting like brothers. In my opinion when the sun hits the deck, the working day is over for the PH.

The last hunt I went on the PH couldn't believe that I got out of the car to open gates. It reflected in his attitude. He went the extra mile to get me a Cape kudu.

Andrew Jones said:

I'm disappointed by the lodge mentality of African hunting. I swear if I hear one more rich American rattle the ice in his glass in hope that someone might fetch him a top up...

I'd like to see a return to traditional tented camps. I'd pay more for a tented camp than the pretence of a faux lodge experience. Just a bunch of guys sitting around the campfire chatting like brothers. In my opinion when the sun hits the deck, the working day is over for the PH.

The last hunt I went on the PH couldn't believe that I got out of the car to open gates. It reflected in his attitude. He went the extra mile to get me a Cape kudu.

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I agree

On the flipside, lots of spouses come along on the hunts. I don't think they would go if it the accommodations were tent camps.

Explain how that's bad?