9mm suggestions

Damn the well placed frozen herring, and full speed ahead!

Velo Dog said:

Damn the well placed frozen herring, and full speed ahead!

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I was honestly waiting for someone to bring up the frozen herring. But I didn't expect it to be the author...

In my humble opinion, if it is for carry and the occasional trip to the range:
1. CZ P07 (9mmP)
2. Glock 19 G4

Hammers are my preference too, however a striker is much more comfy to carry concealed. I suggest going to a good shop who has both and an assortment of IWB holsters and then figure out which will fit your frame best. Look at a size up and a size down too. So that would be a CZ P09 and a Glock 43. The Glock 43 has no place in a competitive environment, but it is an awesome pistol to 'set and forget'

Any of the above should be accompanied by lots of range time and especially take the time to test your carry ammo for reliability. That means a few hundred rounds with no malfunction.

Be Safe.

I'm a lefty and carry a 9mm 1911. Love it. I also, on occassion, will carry a Walther PPQ Gen II. One of the best triggers on a polymer gun I have ever tried. I really like that little gun. It fits in your budget.

I have heard that the Walther PPQ Gen II has a great trigger, however it's not practical in South Africa to go with this gun. Spares and backup will be so troublesome, it would not be viable. Steer clear of any guns that do not have very comprehensive support.

I agree with velo dog go with a sig 40cal cant wrong with a sig 226 r any sig for that matter! personally prefer a 45 but they aren't for the untrained hand. FYI I was trained by cops both grandpas and my dad and shot competition. and all 3 carried colt 1911 45 cals! You couldn't pay me enough money to trust my life to a 9mm, just my opinion and the opinion of the cops I grew up with who survived wars and real world gun battles and killed bad guys.

It's difficult to argue against the fact that there is more energy in a .40 and a fair bit more in a .45 round. However a lot of the negative opinion against the 9mm is based on very old perceptions which, when put to the test, don't make the 9mm look as dainty as many would have you believe. The penetration is excellent and there has been a lot of modern upgrades to the round. Choices are plentiful. There are always going to be more rounds in a 9mm and it gets the job done on average with the same no. of rounds. Shots on target count for more than anything. Many people do carry a full-size 1911 in .45 but I think the majority are moving to 9mm lightweight poly as a personal carry option.

Personal preference plays a lot into the caliber choice. Modern bullets have changed the dynamic of the debate as to whether a 9mm is suitable as a personal defense round. I love my 45s, but also see the merit in relying on a 9mm that I know is reliable and that I can shoot accurately. In the end, shot placement and picking a gun/caliber combo that you can shoot well in a variety of scenarios are critically important.

As previously stated, there are a lot of good options to choose from and no one gun is "perfect" for carry and competition. There are compromises to be made/expected when trying to use a gun for other than its' intended purpose. I shoot a 45 in competition on a weekly basis, some with optics some without. When I began carrying about 20 years ago, I had to purchase a carry gun. Why, the guns I used for competition were simply too large for discreet carry and the sights would snag on holsters, clothes etc. After much research I purchased a 45 caliber Para Ordinance LDA Companion (3.5 " barrel) with the carry option i.e. rounded sights etc. To this day, I still think it is the best carry pistol made. The only drawback is that it is heavy, probably due to the fact that it is all metal. I've tried numerous holsters and vests with varying degrees of success. Now I'm convinced that on occasion (read depending on what I'm wearing) I need to consider other options and have purchased smaller framed striker fired polymer guns in 40 cal., 9mm and .380.

Your selection of a first handgun needs to be based on practicality, i.e. suitable for your current needs, available, affordable etc. However you can rest assured that your first purchase won't be your last.

In this case, there is the considerable constraint of what is available and supported in the local market. While in Texas, there is nothing stopping you from enjoying the pleasures of the 'Lone Star State' and soaking up the variety. South Africa is limited mainly by the two important factors that are of primary importance, namely: price and support.

When I was last there, and after visiting a few stores it was exciting and frustrating at the same time. Those good old days when you could walk out the door with the firearm and throw it in your check-in luggage... sigh.

Shootist43, I admire your resolve to carry that .45. If you can and will, you won't regret it.

Coming to this late. I have had a life-long love for 1911's of almost any guise (one of the new Sig clones is almost always in my truck) and I have often carried a light-weight commander in, horror of horrors, 9mm. That said, my new favorite carry pistol is a Springfield XD in .45. It is striker fired, but supremely accurate and very manageable even with service loads. Feels like carrying half the bulk of a commander and none of the feeling of a plastic dirt clod I get from Glocks (apologies to Gaston). Great little weapon.

interesting as I read this it seems to be a "generational" preference with us more mature graying folks loving our 45's and the "newer" shooters loving polymer 9mm's. truth be told in the right hands any will do if you put the first rd on target. Yes I have plastic guns too but when the rubber hits the road I want my 45! old fashion or not!

Springfield XD is nice option. I guess it is partly due to when and where you started shooting. Many of my more senior shooting buddies tend to prefer a .45 and they are right. Their experience suggests that a .45 just doesn't disappoint. ever. I'm personally very keen on 9mm since I shoot it for sport in IPSC production division and it has become a very familiar friend. Controllable, reliable, accurate and fast. It can be snappy with lighter bullets or give a more respectable thump with 147gn projectiles.
Having said that though, I absolutely love shooting a .45 and in a full-frame 1911 it's addictive. I should probably make more of an effort to start trying out some of the lighter polymer .45's to see how they compare. The biggest factor would be capacity vs concealability. A Glock 43 with a +2 shoe gives me 8+1 and I don't even know it's there and I always have a spare mag with more pellets on me.

as i like the 1911 was wondering if anyone had any experience with the springfield emp in yes 9mm ?

http://www.springfield-armory.com/products/1911-emp-9-mm/#PI9210L

spike.t said:

as i like the 1911 was wondering if anyone had any experience with the springfield emp in yes 9mm ?

http://www.springfield-armory.com/products/1911-emp-9-mm/#PI9210L

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Buddy of mine has one in 9mm. It is temperamental, as are most 1911 inspired compacts when you shrink them down. The only exception are the sig p238, if you can call that 1911ish. It functions well with anything you run through it. But the emp.... I would pass. Taking an existing design and shrinking it down doesn't ever work as well as something built from the ground up to be that size.

ChrisG said:

Buddy of mine has one in 9mm. It is temperamental, as are most 1911 inspired compacts when you shrink them down. The only exception are the sig p238, if you can call that 1911ish. It functions well with anything you run through it. But the emp.... I would pass. Taking an existing design and shrinking it down doesn't ever work as well as something built from the ground up to be that size.

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ok thanks for the info.

I owned and shot the Tanfoglio version of the cz75 in competion at the local pistol club i found it a very well balanced and acurate pistol

Red Leg said:

Coming to this late. I have had a life-long love for 1911's of almost any guise (one of the new Sig clones is almost always in my truck) and I have often carried a light-weight commander in, horror of horrors, 9mm. That said, my new favorite carry pistol is a Springfield XD in .45. It is striker fired, but supremely accurate and very manageable even with service loads. Feels like carrying half the bulk of a commander and none of the feeling of a plastic dirt clod I get from Glocks (apologies to Gaston). Great little weapon.

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Up here in the socialist workers paradise we plebs can't carry. That said I'm with Red Leg on the XD. I have the original in 40 used for IDPA. I'm a lefty and a bit safety obsessed. The XD unlike the Glock has 2 safeties, trigger and grip like the 1911 and an ambi mag release. With modern hollow point ammo I wouldn't feel undergunned with a 9mm, with hardball it would be 45 only.

my $0.02

lcq said:

Up here in the socialist workers paradise we plebs can't carry. That said I'm with Red Leg on the XD. I have the original in 40 used for IDPA. I'm a lefty and a bit safety obsessed. The XD unlike the Glock has 2 safeties, trigger and grip like the 1911 and an ambi mag release. With modern hollow point ammo I wouldn't feel undergunned with a 9mm, with hardball it would be 45 only.

my $0.02

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I also have an Xd. Standard Service 4" in 9mm. The trigger isn't as crisp as a S&W M&P but, when I look at it I think "This is what a Glock SHOULD have been." No cheaping out on plastic trigger, sights, etc. also, as to the 9mm being ineffective, I don't have as much experience as I only worked as an armored car guard for a couple years, which probably seems like a mall cop to a lot of people, but I worked with a lot a guys from Vietnam era on on... All I can say is, if the 9mm were as ineffective as everyone seems to think, why does the adoption rate by militaries and civilians keep going up, not down? I do get tired of the "it was designed to wound" malarky, or "its all just politics and bean counters". The military doesn't design weapons to wound. If their bean counters ruled everything, we wouldn't have an F-22 Raptor or an M1A Abrams Tank. They pick weapons that they think are a balance of a great number of things. Power, logistics, useability, precision, and practicality among others. The 9mm, honestly, was a wonderfully thought out and designed cartridge that was way ahead of its time. It would be 50 years until someone came up with something that could be crammed in a semi automatic pistol that was as reliable and efficient as old Georg's slim, tapered supersonic round.

here is a great article about why it is chosen more than .45, .40, 10mm etc. : http://www.tactical-life.com/gear/45-acp-vs-9mm-ammo/#bsum-buffoni

Anywho, back to the XD. It is a wonderful tool, lightweight, accurate and durable as anything in it's class. I love mine and I wish I had owned it when I was required to carry a gun.

spike.t said:

as i like the 1911 was wondering if anyone had any experience with the springfield emp in yes 9mm ?

http://www.springfield-armory.com/products/1911-emp-9-mm/#PI9210L

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Yes, this is my primary house & carry pistol. In 9mm.
Accurate, tight tolerances to a point of frustration on take down, no failures. SA life time gaurentee.
I am planning to replace with the new carry EMP, primarily for the fiber optic front sight.
I would recommend, as long as your familiar with 1911 manual of arms