African Hunting Safari For Two

Saw a lot of this type offer at my own recent SCI auction. Some things didn't get a single bid!

johnnyblues said:

I wish you the best. Look forward to your report.

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Hi Johnnyblues. I am looking forward to your arrival and safari with me. We have a flawless reputation that speaks for itself. You will have a fantastic hunt and safari with Quality being our primary focus when it comes to your experience and your trophies. I understand that many of the guys on this forum can't wait to tear anyone that dares to tread on their turf (AH) a new one. I want you to rest assured that your safari is in good hands, there are 0 surprises and you will have the experience that you expect and more! Have a good day, Ricus

rinehart0050 said:

Isn't that Dennis's photo @The Artistry of Wildlife! on the flyer?

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Yes it is Dennis Harris, you can call him and ask him if he had a good safari..

Ricus said:

Hi Johnnyblues. I am looking forward to your arrival and safari with me. We have a flawless reputation that speaks for itself. You will have a fantastic hunt and safari with Quality being our primary focus when it comes to your experience and your trophies. I understand that many of the guys on this forum can't wait to tear anyone that dares to tread on their turf (AH) a new one. I want you to rest assured that your safari is in good hands, there are 0 surprises and you will have the experience that you expect and more! Have a good day, Ricus

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????? Safari with you???

VonJager said:

the offer clearly states it has a $650 trophy credit per hunter. I think they offer every client $650 off if they shoot 7 animals. If the OP or @Neale take 7 animals they will get the $650, and I think the OP basically gets a blesbok or impala for "free."

It isn't the worst ever, but you would need to be selective in what you shoot for sure. Warthog, Gemsbok look not that far out of line. Zebra, wildebeest, red hartebeest are a little high, but not outrageous. Cape Eland, baboon, and mountain reedbuck seem about right.

I would take Eland, Gemsbok, warthog, the "free" impala or blesbok, the other (impala or blesbok). that is 5. Mtn reedbuck, then the next animal is $650 off, and now Zebra, hartebeest or wildebeest are less or inline with many places.

Find a friend or family member to be the 2nd hunter for 1250.

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B. Vaughn said:

I recently purchased this hunt at a ducks unlimited event. I have the attached the information. Unfortunately, with my work schedule it is unlikely that I will have the time to go. I paid $2,500.00 for the hunt. I am looking to get my money back, not turn a profit. I can send a receipt showing the amount that I paid for the hunt. I checked with DU and I can transfer the hunt. The hunt must be taken by the end of the year. It includes $650.00 per hunter in trophy fees. If you are interested please message me and I will provide you with my phone number. Serious inquiries only please.

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B. Vaughn said:

I recently purchased this hunt at a ducks unlimited event. I have the attached the information. Unfortunately, with my work schedule it is unlikely that I will have the time to go. I paid $2,500.00 for the hunt. I am looking to get my money back, not turn a profit. I can send a receipt showing the amount that I paid for the hunt. I checked with DU and I can transfer the hunt. The hunt must be taken by the end of the year. It includes $650.00 per hunter in trophy fees. If you are interested please message me and I will provide you with my phone number. Serious inquiries only please.

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Hi Guys
I am the owner of White Lion Safaris. I did this donation as a 100% donation to DU. There is no ''fine print'' or anything hidden. All the information is available and the buyer knows exactly what he is buying. Some of my prices might be higher than some other outfitters, but I have to tell you, in my experience, cheaper is not always better.. You are all very welcome to follow up on any of my past clients, including anyone displayed on the flyer and ask them if they had a positive experience and if they felt it was a fair deal for the price they paid. I am sure you will find that we have a flawless reputation.
Personally I feel that attacking me on this forum through Mr. Vaugn simply trying to pass on a safari worth $ 8000 for $ 2 500, is in bad taste. If you really feel that 7 days for 2 hunters and a total of $ 1 300 credit is not worth $ 2 500, I'd like to live in your world.. Yes, we ask that clients shoot more trophies when on this donated safari, to help us cover costs also. That is a way to protect ourselves from a certain mindset that unfortunately exists among some hunters to buy several of these donations at auctions with different outfitters at 20% of it's value and then come over and only hunt the donated animals or credit then moves on to the next guy.
Thats not who we are, what we want to offer and how we want to do things. We build a personal relationship with each and every client. You are not just a number with us!! The hunters have the right to do this if he want's but we try to not be in that market. I also have the right to offer any type of safari, the way I want and as long as the willing buyer knows exactly what he is buying, then I see no problem with it. It is fine if you disagree with me, you have the fullest right to, but this is what we offer, superior quality in experience, accommodations and animals, size of land we hunt.

I invite you to e mail me if you have any further opinions on this matter that you feel I should be aware of, since I am not able to spend that much time on this site or any other. That way I will be able to answer your questions.

Have a great week everyone and if you are in Vegas at the moment, have a great show.
Ricus de Villiers

johnnyblues said:

????? Safari with you???

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Sorry, I miss read the article above, it was sent to you not by you from @ Neale. Apologies.. @Neale will be with us soon and it maybe good to follow up with him after his safari to quality check us further

This is the worst donation I have ever seen! Terrible.
Philip

Ricus said:

Hi Guys
I am the owner of White Lion Safaris. I did this donation as a 100% donation to DU. There is no ''fine print'' or anything hidden. All the information is available and the buyer knows exactly what he is buying. Some of my prices might be higher than some other outfitters, but I have to tell you, in my experience, cheaper is not always better.. You are all very welcome to follow up on any of my past clients, including anyone displayed on the flyer and ask them if they had a positive experience and if they felt it was a fair deal for the price they paid. I am sure you will find that we have a flawless reputation.
Personally I feel that attacking me on this forum through Mr. Vaugn simply trying to pass on a safari worth $ 8000 for $ 2 500, is in bad taste. If you really feel that 7 days for 2 hunters and a total of $ 1 300 credit is not worth $ 2 500, I'd like to live in your world.. Yes, we ask that clients shoot more trophies when on this donated safari, to help us cover costs also. That is a way to protect ourselves from a certain mindset that unfortunately exists among some hunters to buy several of these donations at auctions with different outfitters at 20% of it's value and then come over and only hunt the donated animals or credit then moves on to the next guy.
Thats not who we are, what we want to offer and how we want to do things. We build a personal relationship with each and every client. You are not just a number with us!! The hunters have the right to do this if he want's but we try to not be in that market. I also have the right to offer any type of safari, the way I want and as long as the willing buyer knows exactly what he is buying, then I see no problem with it. It is fine if you disagree with me, you have the fullest right to, but this is what we offer, superior quality in experience, accommodations and animals, size of land we hunt.

I invite you to e mail me if you have any further opinions on this matter that you feel I should be aware of, since I am not able to spend that much time on this site or any other. That way I will be able to answer your questions.

Have a great week everyone and if you are in Vegas at the moment, have a great show.
Ricus de Villiers

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Ricus,

I understand, all too well, the difficulties of these donated safaris (both as a client and as an outfitter myself). Its a donation you can offer it any way you want to and I do not begrudge you protecting yourself by some of the fine print. However the $650 charge for not shooting 4 animals is bad business period. Setting a minimum that a hunter must take is not what hunting is all about. This is just my opinion on this particular donation. This is nothing against you or your business. I know you have a good reputation.
Regards,
Philip

I feel bad for maybe being too hasty so I’m doing the math on this real time to make sure I’m not hasty.



Lets compare apples to oranges for a comparison, an unfair one to our friends in Zim.



A 14 day fly camp dangerous game hunt to Zimbabwe in the Valley will run about $15,000 for two hunters, 2x1, all transport and fees in.



Next we have the trophy fees. These animals with VATs, fees, etc. came to $13,000.



Cape Buffalo

Hippo

Bushbuck

Impala (2)

Hyena

Duiker

Baboon (5)

Kudu Bull

Francolin (5)

Pigeons (5)



So in RSA of the White Lion Safari advert this would be:



Cape Buffalo ($16,000)

Hippo (Not listed, so will call it free)

Bushbuck ($1590)

Impala (2) ($1300)

Hyena (Not listed, so will call it free)

Duiker ($590)

Baboon (5) ($1500)

Kudu Bull ($3290)

Francolin (5) (Not listed, so will call it free)

Pigeons (5) (Not listed, so will call it free)



Total not including Hippo, Hyena, Francolin or Pigeons - $23,680 - $650 for killing more than 7 animals, -$650 in fronted trophy fees = $22,380.



So a fly camp hunt in the Zambezi Valley for 14 days of hunting with additional game animals on the frugal 2x1 would be about $28,000 all-in. Compared to the RSA high fence (or maybe low fence) hunt quoted $22,380 + $3500 raffle fee = $25,880. (not counting birds, Hyena and Hippo which weren’t listed not their price sheet so we’ll call it free.)

7 days hunting in RSA, a buffalo, bushbuck, two impala, a duiker, 5 baboons and a kudu bull = $25,880?

It still seems strange, but I don’t know much about RSA hunts at DU auctions.

rinehart0050 said:

I'm not a big fan of these donation hunts either. Its the classic conundrum of low daily rates = high trophy fees and vice versa. These donations offer the illusion of a great deal, rather than actually being a great deal.

It seems to me that some of the best deals are posted right here on AH by many of our sponsors.

I wouldn't immediately discount the outfitter though. There's at least one report on AH about this outfitter and the hunter seemed very happy.

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Thank you rinehart0050, I appreciate your message.

Philip Glass said:

Ricus,

I understand, all too well, the difficulties of these donated safaris (both as a client and as an outfitter myself). Its a donation you can offer it any way you want to and I do not begrudge you protecting yourself by some of the fine print. However the $650 charge for not shooting 4 animals is bad business period. Setting a minimum that a hunter must take is not what hunting is all about. This is just my opinion on this particular donation. This is nothing against you or your business. I know you have a good reputation.
Regards,
Philip

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Thank you Phillip for your message. I understand your concern. I will investigate to try and find a way to better represent our goal. Have a good day.

rookhawk said:

View attachment 171483 I feel bad for maybe being too hasty so I’m doing the math on this real time to make sure I’m not hasty.



Lets compare apples to oranges for a comparison, an unfair one to our friends in Zim.



A 14 day fly camp dangerous game hunt to Zimbabwe in the Valley will run about $15,000 for two hunters, 2x1, all transport and fees in.



Next we have the trophy fees. These animals with VATs, fees, etc. came to $13,000.



Cape Buffalo

Hippo

Bushbuck

Impala (2)

Hyena

Duiker

Baboon (5)

Kudu Bull

Francolin (5)

Pigeons (5)



So in RSA of the White Lion Safari advert this would be:



Cape Buffalo ($16,000)

Hippo (Not listed, so will call it free)

Bushbuck ($1590)

Impala (2) ($1300)

Hyena (Not listed, so will call it free)

Duiker ($590)

Baboon (5) ($1500)

Kudu Bull ($3290)

Francolin (5) (Not listed, so will call it free)

Pigeons (5) (Not listed, so will call it free)



Total not including Hippo, Hyena, Francolin or Pigeons - $23,680 - $650 for killing more than 7 animals, -$650 in fronted trophy fees = $22,380.



So a fly camp hunt in the Zambezi Valley for 14 days of hunting with additional game animals on the frugal 2x1 would be about $28,000 all-in. Compared to the RSA high fence (or maybe low fence) hunt quoted $22,380 + $3500 raffle fee = $25,880. (not counting birds, Hyena and Hippo which weren’t listed not their price sheet so we’ll call it free.)

7 days hunting in RSA, a buffalo, bushbuck, two impala, a duiker, 5 baboons and a kudu bull = $25,880?

It still seems strange, but I don’t know much about RSA hunts at DU auctions.

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Thank you for your concern Rookhawk. I understand what you are trying to do with your maths here, but compare apples with apples. SA and Zim is 2 very different places and in both you will find a huge variety of prices and offers. You can do a buff hunt in Zim or in SA for under 10k, but not with me.. Have a good day.

BRICKBURN said:

What about DU?

Five beer and start bidding

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DU does fantastic work for all of us as sportsmen and without donations they will not be able to exist. But thank you for your concern Brickburn. We all aim to better ourselves..

rookhawk said:

The saddest part of these scams or "offers" is this is the introduction to Africa that the initial buyer gets to experience. You buy in America at what you think is a reputable charitable function only to find out that there is almost zero vetting of items offered by these conservation organizations whatsoever and you're left holding the bag on a gigantic expense for a worthless voucher for a hunt no one would ever partake in. It's not right.

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I just want to caution you on your remarks. You do not know me or anything about White lion safaris. It's all good if you want to help someone on this forum, but do your research first before giving me a bad name on this site, thats not right either.

Ricus said:

I just want to caution you on your remarks. You do not know me or anything about White lion safaris. It's all good if you want to help someone on this forum, but do your research first before giving me a bad name on this site, thats not right either.

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That is fair. I don't know the quality of your amenities, resources or trophies. You may also be a very, very nice guy. I do know that at $45,000 for a black impala you are higher than the cost of a black impala and a 50lb+ exportable elephant combined elsewhere in the Limpopo province.

I suspect you have a ranch where you call the shots and you can price as you wish for what you own. Warthogs and Zebras, impalas and other species seem to be pretty normal pricing. Then there are bizarre prices on some animals to which I infer (best case) that you need to get them from other ranches at big markups passed on to you. If that is the case, why would you publish these rates and make it seem like you're committing highway robbery when you could just say "price upon request"?

I'm not trying to tell you how to run your business, I'm trying to suggest that what you publish for fees reflects on you. If the fees are gratuitously disproportionate from other hunts the assumption is something wrong may be happening.

I will say it again, these donations are killing us as outfitters, pushing us into corners where we don't want to find ourselves. I am concerned about the amount of money that actually goes back to Africa or helps the African outfitter???

@Ricus , you donated something to DU, and nobody can fault you for putting everything in writing and making a donation.

Ricus said:

DU does fantastic work for all of us as sportsmen and without donations they will not be able exist..

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Which is why I just donate money annually.

Traditional Mozambique Safaris said:

.......
@Ricus , you donated something to DU, and nobody can fault you for putting everything in writing and making a donation.

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No fault at all for spelling out an offer. That is exactly what is required.

How do we get informed buyers? Are all these resales just about scheduling issues?

This repeat pattern of reselling auctioned hunts has been a constant concern expressed over the years from multiple perspectives.

Quite a dilemma for donors and organizations.

Yep that's me Ricus is great guy...Treated me and my wife great , private charter for taking my lion another private charter for my lioness and back to Jberg. All inclusive. Wonderful time wonderful Guy!
Recommend him and his operation.

Ricus said:

Sorry, I miss read the article above, it was sent to you not by you from @ Neale. Apologies.. @Neale will be with us soon and it maybe good to follow up with him after his safari to quality check us further

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Ricus,
I am looking forward to my time at your place.
If I can add anything for prospective clients at this point in time, it is to contact Ricus with an email and ask him to put a deal together.
I think you will be pleasantly supprised.

Philip Glass said:

This is the worst donation I have ever seen! Terrible.
Philip

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+1

This donation hunt is garbage. There is no way this would sell at DSC or a venue where the bidders know the prevailing trophy fees.

$1,490 for a Red Hartebeest? The last place I hunted charged $650, and that was free range.
$5,500 for a giraffe? That is a new record.

I would not hunt with this outfit.