After numerous delays, I sent Leica a letter

rookhawk

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Just returned from the UPS store. After two years wrestling with Leica I just sent a $3000 pair of rangefinding binoculars to the president of Leica USA, Roger Horn along with a letter requesting specific actions. I'll let you know of their response.

My ongoing impressions of Leica remain the same: amazing products, poor customer service, horrible forecasting, disingenuous release date claims.

Some of my prior Leica experiences:

-paid and ordered a camera that was delayed 2 years. I literally had to pay out of pocket for expedited shipment to get the thing delivered hours before the family was to leave for a make a wish trip so we could document my child's experiences at that special and stressful time in life. (Thank goodness she is now in remission) You never forget a company when they hold your money and miss delivery dates and then charge a mega drop-ship expedite fee to finally get you what you're owed.

I then bought a 1000r range finder that is plastic. The plastic peeled off in first 90 days of use. I requested the service where they send a prepaid Leica ship box TWICE and it never arrived. I asked for money back to buy a better product and they denied me. They wouldn't offer rapid replacement either. I sold it for a large loss and spent $3000 on another one of their rangefinders.

I then bought two of the ER5 scopes pre-announced in 2014 and formally in early 2015. I waited 2.5 years and they haven't yet delivered that product. I've even written Brian Bell and Roger Horn on this topic and phoned twice. Earlier this week I asked for a refund and await to see if I'll get the money back for unfulfilled product.

I tried to buy scopes on their Black Friday sale this year: no scopes for sale, no dealers aware of the sale, no Leica employees available to answer phones. Why have a sale?

Last year I called NJ to check inventory to buy scopes that may not exist and was told Leica is upgrading their inventory system and they can't check stock on hand or ship for 4-6 weeks. Name another company that goes out of business for 4-6 weeks during a computer upgrade?

In the same time period I've owned more than a half dozen Swarovski products and a few Schmidt and Benders and a couple Zeiss. NONE of their competitors have had these issues and with a defective Zeiss and a missing parts issue with Swarovski it was handled professionally and immediately.

I sympathize with Leica USA as they claim the issues are systemic from Germany and they are victims of corporate. However, they are senior business leaders and they can push back or resign if they wish to protect their integrity. Seriously, Leica USA should refuse to publish release dates on product until they are certain they will meet dates. I seriously doubt Leica would fire all US management if they pushed back in this area. Leica's reputation is in the mud and it is all due to the inability to establish and maintain credibility, handle customer satisfaction and execute.

I'll let the readers know if I get any satisfaction from Leica USA after dealing with them for two years on my latest documented issues since day of purchase. (Including being forwarded to developers that worked with gunwerks on the software)
 
I am still waiting for a part for my Beretta shotgun. 5 years....:rolleyes:

I may go to SCI show and acquire the part from the display case on the floor. :ROFLMAO:

The forecasts we get from retailers are always entertaining.
If they would just tell you that they have to wait for an order large enough to be worth the export permits and costs and other fees then you could understand. However, someone taught the front end staff that baffling with BS is the way to go.
Recently, the staff have resorted to shrugging their shoulders when asked a question.
 
If I have one bad experience from a company, I just shop elsewhere.

I hear you @Nyati. The reason that isn't always possible would be technological.

Examples: If you want rangefinding binos with excellent glass that range under 11 yards...Leica has the monopoly/patent. (when it works) If you want a straight tube 30mm DG scope with German/Austrian glass for under $1700, Leica has it in spades at $750. (if the product existed) If you wanted a 1.2 fstop digital camera at 15mp or above with German glass for less than $2000, Leica has it. (if the product launched within 2 years of promise)

But nonetheless, I'm learning my lessons. Have I mentioned what an outstanding company Swarovski is lately? They are!
 
Thanks for letting us know. I was considering buying a new rangefinder and Leica was at the top of my list, now they are off the list
 
Thanks for letting us know. I was considering buying a new rangefinder and Leica was at the top of my list, now they are off the list

@lcq , if that decision is based solely upon my experience I'd ask that you give it 2 weeks for an update. Lets see if they tend to my issue when sent directly to the president of Leica USA.

The Leica HD-R 10x42 2200 is a remarkable rangefinding binocular. Sure Leica is snooty and has bad customer service. They also have patents. If you don't need close rangefinding and EHR calculations for archery, go with the Swarovski. Also, if you want to range find slugs for firing solutions and if you don't want to use .357, .44, .22 Hornet, .17HMR and a host of other calibers on the fringe, go with the swarovski. For the average medium to large bore long distance firing solution offerings, the Swarovski will do it all quite well.

I needed features within the Leica (or at least I wanted them) so I was pushed towards that brand.
 
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I'm not sure that patience is a virtue in this case. I considered buying a Leica-flex camera in the 1970's after my Nikon had been ruined during an Alaska trip. About that time Nikon came out with their F2 and I went with that. My brother in law bought a Leica made in Portugal. So much for German engineering. A good friend of mine in college had a Leica M3 and rather liked it until obsoleted by the disappearance of film. I've never considered buying anything from Leica since I have found products from Zeiss, S&B & older US brands to meet my needs & uses exceedingly well.
 
I read in various forums, the complaint against Leica service and product availability. I cannot comment of the service, currently own 9 Leica products, 4 binoculars, 4 rifle scopes and 1 camera. So for I have not needed service. One binocular is 35 year old, no service needed, the camera is 71 years old and no service so far (granted the camera does not get any use, more of a status symbol). Now, one of those binoculars is the HD-B range finding binocular. It's electronic so I know one day it will fail, as all electronics do, when that day surely comes, hopefully if can still be serviced, I will find out of the service is as bad as everyone complains about or if some folks are just having isolated bad luck with service.

Now product availability, I can comment on that. Leica has a very nasty habit of "releasing" a product before they have sufficient stock of tested product. Two years again I handled an ER5, what the production problem is that would take more then 2 year to resolve is beyond me. While I would personally not buy one of those ER5 scopes that are badged Leica but made in the USA, as they are not from a Leica plant (Germany or Portugal). Perhaps some leftover bad karma from the last made in the USA for Leica product, I don't know. On a personal buying note, I inquired at DSC of Leica when they are going to get, if ever, the scope covers that are currently available in Europe. The reply was after Shot Show. We shall see. If not, I guess I will have to bite the bullet and pay the $60 shipping for a $60 product.
 
@lcq , if that decision is based solely upon my experience I'd ask that you give it 2 weeks for an update. Lets see if they tend to my issue when sent directly to the president of Leica USA.

The Leica HD-R 10x42 2200 is a remarkable rangefinding binocular. Sure Leica is snooty and has bad customer service. They also have patents. If you don't need close rangefinding and EHR calculations for archery, go with the Swarovski. Also, if you want to range find slugs for firing solutions and if you don't want to use .357, .44, .22 Hornet, .17HMR and a host of other calibers on the fringe, go with the swarovski. For the average medium to large bore long distance firing solution offerings, the Swarovski will do it all quite well.

I needed features within the Leica (or at least I wanted them) so I was pushed towards that brand.

After sales service is really important to me. Leupold and Vortex are top drawer and if I'm going to pay premium cash I expect premium service. I just need a good rangefinder that reliably range animals most do well with trees, rocks etc but fail miserably on fur.
 
I had two major issues with leica back when Cabelas would take anything back for any reason. After that I bought Swarovski. Who cares if leica is the only company that has product A or a good price on product b If it doesn't work? The only way to solve the problem is to quit buying there stuff. Sorry but after that many problems with the same company it's time to find a new company or learn to live with junk equipment. Buy Swarovski and never worry again.
 
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I had two major issues with leica back when Cabelas would take anything back for any reason. After that I bought Swarovski. Who cares if leica is the only company that has product A or a good price on product b If it doesn't work? The only way to solve the problem is to quit buying there stuff. Sorry but after that many problems with the same company it's time to find a new company or learn to live with junk equipment. Buy Swarovski and never worry again.


Agree 100%. Leica Sport Optics USA is a joke. Too bad because they have good products.
 
rook,

Since they are a sponsor, and this is a public forum, lets see if they will respond on the thread.

@Leica Sport Optics It seems like one of your customers has a customer service issue. Do you care to respond?
 
@Wheels I wrote them a polite note on this topic on this site also.

Someone earlier in this thread asked why I would buy a product again if I've had a past problem. I'd say it shows that I'm logic based and pretty patient. Example: Had a dodge ram diesel...engine blew up...Chrysler sucks like Ford and Chevy suck...bought another Ram. Why? My personal experiences are statistically insignificant to the larger data set that says they are pretty reliable motors. Thus, it takes a LOT to get me fuming with a manufacturer of products because I can slough off the first couple bad experiences in the face of data that says most people have better results. I try to use data and not a few personal experiences and emotions in my purchase decisions but eventually, enough becomes enough!
 
Sir you are far more patient than I am.
 
Well @CAustin , I never want to go off half cocked on a business if I can help it. People work for companies and bad reviews hurt business. I've tried to be very even tempered with my concerns and even now I'm giving them a bit more time to respond before I go "nuclear" on them.
 
I have heard of similar experiences with Leica, as well as Zeiss & Swarovski. Between that & the price. No reason to not buy Leopold. Just not that much of a difference to risk the potential problems. I had a buddy that had a Leica Rangefinder & Binocs..... they wanted him to "service" like every year for several hundreds of dollars. And when he need a replacement component, they would say tough $hit or gouge his eyes out.
 
@BWH I would love to proclaim American made scopes by Leupold with their amazing warranty are excellent, but I can't. Yes, they have the best warranty. Yes they are made in good old USA.

But once you've tasted really good glass you can't look at a leupold the same way ever again. VX 1, 2, and 3 stuff is especially bad. Just my impression having owned a great many of them. Those that are content with them I say good for you, you've saved yourself a fortune.
 
@rookhawk I hear ya' brother..... I have heard that about that glass. I don't hunt with anything under the VX-3 in terms of quality. The VX-6 I would say rivals the best.... may not beat it though. But price, service, product, etc. Tough to pass up. What few times I've had to use the warranty, it was amazing. Best of luck with resolution.
 
I really wasn't trying to be rude. Just seems to me you had more then 1 or 2 problems with the same company. I gave them two chances and their product was defective after a month usage. I'm just saying if you keep buying from them. You probably should get use to being disappointed. And having one bad product is one thing. Having poor customer service is a totally different thing. If you keep letting them get away with poor service they will never change. Why would they? They continue to get your money. Good luck with your situation. For me I will never buy or deal with them again.
 
Rookhawk I am sorry to hear your issue I have the hd-b ranging binos and mine have no issues what so ever and glass is awesome. In fact Brian Bell personally handed me mine. Do you go to shot show? I will be there next week. If I see Brian I will give him a little crap for such BS as there is no excuse for anyone to be treated as you have!
I have all the brands etc and it is my opinion that Schmidt&Bender has the best scopes but they are arrogant too and can be PIA. Swarovski treats me very good most of the time. In general though the high end euro is best glass but they are all kinda arrogant and not really customer service focused.
 

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