Another large caliber thread .404 or .416

Thanks for all the comments guys, look forward to hearing from more of you

@Guy.G , please post a pic or 2 when you get it!

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I went through this choice of a 416 rigby or 404 jeffery about twelve months ago, don't get me wrong I would like both. I decided on the 404 jeffery, because of the superior shoulder design. I went for a 1957 columbian mauser action, weibe bottom metal, lothar walther barrel, quather rib with express sights in a nice walnut stock. Should be finished in a month or so.

Seems much harder finding a .404 out there than the .416's, even on gunbroker. Anyone have any suggestions on other places to look besides reeds, bass, cabelas, gander, gunbroker, grabagun?

CZ550s can be ordered through the distributor in Kansas City and delivered to a local FFL.

Reedy I've bought 2 guns from GUNSAMERIAC.COM with no complaints. YMMV.

There is a thread on here recently with a CZ 550 .404 for sale. But I think the general opinion was the price was a bit high.

@stug
I saw that one and that is the thread that got me thinking actually. Yes it seems the place that is selling the gun is not willing to negotiate. It is a nice looking rifle

Thanks @Clayton for the site info

reedy0312 said:

@Guy.G , please post a pic or 2 when you get it!

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I went through this choice of a 416 rigby or 404 jeffery about twelve months ago, don't get me wrong I would like both. I decided on the 404 jeffery, because of the superior shoulder design. I went for a 1957 columbian mauser action, weibe bottom metal, lothar walther barrel, quather rib with express sights in a nice walnut stock. Should be finished in a month or so.

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Yes mate, I will post a few pictures when its finished.

Bump

I have had a rigby and ruger in 416 and even though I love the Rigby the Ruger shoots better for me. Probably because the rifle fits me like a glove.

Between 404 and 416 I would go 416.

I think you should spare yourself this anguish and just get one of each...

@Roan ,

I wish I could make it easier and just get both! If I do decide to move forward at some point, I will only be able to get one

One more bump

Hey Reedy,

I was in a similar predicament. I had the 375 H&H and the questions was what to get next.... I spent hours reading up on the 404 the 416Rem, Rigby and the Ruger. The ruger was ruled out as it had not appeal to me- not knocking it just wasn't for me. I thought the rigby would be too much recoil so that was moved aside.

So after all my reading I was lucky enough to shoot a rifle in 404J- A fellow club member owned one. Well after shooting it, this IS the calibre for me. SO i started to research the cost of building a custom, action, barrels, sights, work and time it was going to take. Which was okay as I wasn't sure when this was going to happen anyway.

In the mean time my local Gunshop advertised a Ruger in 416 Rigby.... So i started looking more into this combination... the more I looked the more I liked and with a bit 0f clever accounting it mean i could own said rifle ALOT sooner. By the time I called and wanted to store the rifle had sold.... BUGGER!!! So i said to the owner if another one pops up let me know- Now being based in Western Australia the chances of finding another... well lets just say I'd have more luck winning the lotto.

So i began looking for my next rifle 458 win mags, 458 LOTT, 416Rem mag, 416 rigby. I wanted a bigger rifle and soon! I don't know what it was but the charm of an african classic like the Rigby or Jeffrey really appealed to me. A couple of months latter my local store rings me. We have a 416 Rigby another Ruger with a nice Circassian(spelling??) walnut stock Needless to say I didn't let this one slip away!

I have had the rifle for over a year an shot it a bit. I love it! I had the trigger lightened and changed the recoil pad to a softer/thicker limbsaver and its made a heap of difference- recoil is certainly up on a 375 but its not unbearable. Its a bit like going from a 3006 to a 375 shooting factory ammo. Off the bench the Rigby is horrible but I managed to put 3 shots into 1.25 inches at 100m(the 4th went about 4 inches left though!) As times goes by I would like to do some work to the stock with custom checkering and another second cross both- purely for aesthetic reasons. If money would allow it i would also like to top it off with a z6i 1-6x24 EE scope but for now I'm happy shooting it

If I found a rifle in 404jeffery instead who knows what might have happened but not once do i regret my choice.
I don't think you'll go wrong with either. when the time is right look a the rifles and options that best suit you

Cheers
TW

Thanks for the input @The_Wanderer !

I am by no means an expert.... if I recall when I was exploring those 2 options.... the 404 was about 20% slower.... but also had about 20% less recoil than the 416's....

I have both and like both. Probably will sell one or the other at some point as I just don't see the need for both. The .404 has more charisma than the .416 and can be loaded well beyond its nominal original specs but will not equal the Rigby simply because the Rigby has more boiler room. The Jeff may approach 2500fps/400gr but the Rigby can equal the Weatherby at nearly 2700/400. I like the .404 at about 2250fps, I think that's the sweet spot, better than original but wont knock the shooter out from under his pith helmet. As far as getting 5000 of ME out of the .375 H&H? It will take about 2750 fps to gain that. Not sayings its not possible but certainly that is well beyond what its design and capacity was ever meant to do within safe pressure limits. I always figured a tad over 2600 was about MAX. I have never seen a published load claiming 5K out of the H&H round. It would have to be way over any published data maximum load. No thank you.

404 Jeffery did all the work whilst the Rigby got all the glory....

You know why they did not name it the 423 Jeffery?

So that a 404 owner can enjoy the look on the Rigby guys' faces when they find out the 404 is actually bigger

reedy0312 said:

Seems much harder finding a .404 out there than the .416's, even on gunbroker. Anyone have any suggestions on other places to look besides reeds, bass, cabelas, gander, gunbroker, grabagun?

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Hi reedyO312,

If nobody else has mentioned:
www.gunsinternational.com
that web site has provided myself with good deals on several used firearms and used scopes, over the years.



Regarding the two calibers in question, I somewhat prefer the .404 Jeffery over the .416 Rigby, due to the more gradual shoulder of the Jeffery.
Gradually tapered cartridges usually offer slick feeding, (Murphy's Law indicates: "Especially when hunting dangerous game").
Also it has less potential for brass to be ruined during resizing / bullet seating efforts.
Last but not least, the .404 is right at home driving 400 grain bullets at around 2100 - 2200 fps.
But, the huge Rigby case requires spacers or filler material to occupy all that air space, if loading to such "tame" velocity.

That being said, after a long spell of scouring the country for a .404 that, a simple working man like myself could actually afford / without treading close to the double rifle price range, I finally gave up.
I had made offers on 2 separate .404's over the years but, the sellers in both cases were firm on their absurd prices.
One day I was in a Cabela's store (Rogers Minnesota) when they were advertising an "over-stocked sale" on CZ 550 Magnums in .416 Rigby.
It was several years ago but, I believe I only paid $800.US for it? (might have even been less in my case as it possibly also involved redeeming some "purchase points" or whatever they call it, from the Cabela's credit card I had back then, not sure any more).

So, I then had a Gunsmith shorten / re-crown the barrel to 24" (or 23.6" ?), make a custom front sight to resemble a Pre-War Rigby front sight, including a larger flip-up ivory white bead (actually porcelain I think) that is set back a bit from the muzzle, also he installed a Model-70 type "safety" catch, barrel band swivel stud, reinforce the stock internally and weld on a larger bolt handle.
A Rigby rifle it is not, however it looks decent at a glance so far.
Eventually, I hope to have it profiling more in the traditional British express / magazine rifle pattern.
IE: As soon as I retire again one of these years, I plan to slowly and carefully take a bit of external wood off the generous stock, re-shape the cheek piece to an oval, have an ebony or horn forend tip installed then, re-checker it.

There is a .416 for sale at the moment in:
www.griffinhowe.com
that is perfect in every way (except price - LOL).
It is listed as:
"Francotte-300 Brevex"
If I can reshape my CZ stock to anything remotely close to that specific rifle's profile, I will be happy.

Therefore, even if I never find a .404 that I can afford (the above Brevex .416 is also beyond my bank account), I have nothing to gripe about, because my CZ .416 is not too rough to shoot when loaded "only" to original .404 Jeffery ballistics (foam spacer over the powder and all).
Plus it has never malfunctioned / "jammed" and it is satisfyingly quite accurate as well.
Actually, I have repeatedly read and heard tell that, most large bore repeaters and single shots are very accurate (provided one can avoid flinching - LOL).

Anyway Reedy, I do hope you find a fine deal on whichever one you decide you want, both calibers are African classics for sure.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

Thanks for the websites @Velo Dog !