Would you use single shot for Dangerous Game?

Good morning all. Thought I would throw out a question for fun since we are in the end of safari season and getting ready for the shows and prep start of the 2017 season. I am currently building a matched pair of Ruger #1's in 450/400 and 9.3x74R with upgrades to the wood. (Thin shell english walnut).

I have alott of experience with singles and can shoot and reload a number one for three shots within a second of what I can do with a bolt gun for a reference point.

Would you hunt Cape buffalo, lion, or hippo on land with the Ruger #1 450/400 loaded to 400gr at 2300fps?

I would not do it..

Early in the last century the single Farquarsons were popular......but they faded away quickly when high-powered Mausers became available......for a reason.

That said, the .450/400 is a wonderful round in a double rifle..

Why not? The PH is probably going to shoot it anyway (i.e., collaborate, help, etc.).

Well, that may be, but I do not blindly thrust a PH to deal with any situation....they are human, may fail or suffer hickups with his rifle and...whatever..

I have not hunted with a single shot (unless pigeons with a pellet gun count ) but my preference is for either more rounds in a magazine or more barrels...
One of the reasons why so many people on here go for the CZ rifles in bigger calibers... Magazine capacity.

Grumulkin said:

Why not? The PH is probably going to shoot it anyway (i.e., collaborate, help, etc.).

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Some will be ok with their PH doing this, some will prefer otherwise...
A lot will depend on the situation at the time as well.

Grumulkin said:

Why not? The PH is probably going to shoot it anyway (i.e., collaborate, help, etc.).

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why would your PH shoot your animal? are you not capable of dealing with your own game?

if my PH shoots my animal, it better be because i had zero chance of stopping it. if there was even the slightest chance i could stop the animal then i expect the PH to let me do my job. the day i feel im no longer capable of dealing with something going wrong on my hunt is the day i quit hunting DG.

as for using a single shot rifle on DG, i wouldnt recommend it. you might be skilled enough to reload the rifle quickly but alot can go wrong in the heat of the moment.

-matt

Yes I would! Ruger 1 in 375 or 458 Lott!
The one on the left or the one on the right!

I would do it as the first shot placed with a single shot is going to be better than a DR first shot generally speaking. No problem there. The question comes later: If your shot wasn't perfect and a dugga boy or lion isn't dead, do you feel safe going into the jess after wounded DG with a single shot? It's a little precarious so I'd say it comes down to how comfortable you are in yourself and your PH to put a solid in during a charge in thick cover.

And further, do you have quick detach scope arrangement on your single shot? NO, I would not go into the jess after a wounded DG animal with a single shot that had a scope on it. You'll be dead before you find your target in that scenario.

Dave,

I'll answer the question but from my perspective only. This is not intended to criticize anyone who chooses to do so. But no, I personally would not.

Why? Well a long time ago I worked as a civilian but very closely with the U.S. Navy as a nuclear engineer. I attended the Navy's Nuclear Power School and subsequently qualified as an Engineering Officer in an operating nuclear power plant. There are various automatic safety controls within one of these plants that will kick in to prevent any serious accident if the guy in charge makes a wrong move. However as I was taught, if you ever did make a bad decision and caused one of these safety measures to be implemented, you were done in that job. You had failed to maintain control of your plant.

I look at the PH being there to back me up at this moment of truth much the same way. If he must back me up then I feel like I have failed him or her. I have put both myself and the PH into danger. While I understand this is the PH's job, that he/she has taken that job willingly, I don't think they particularly enjoy being put into that position. I'm also quite certain their spouses and children don't either. As such I want to ensure that the PH does not have to back me up. Rifle, caliber and bullet choice are part of that equation.

For me under a stressful situation like a charging animal, I don't feel confident I could reliably reload a single shot and thus I wouldn't use one. That said, it would seem from your post that you have practiced this and if you feel confident in doing so, I certainly won't criticize you.

First of all, in several trips across the water, I have never had a PH make a follow-up shot. If it is necessary, he should feel free, but my sense is most of these guys are pretty good at quickly figuring out their client.

If you have a lot of experience with singles, then you should feel free to use them on anything. I have taken a lot of deer and boar with mine. That said, I have not and am not planning to take one after dangerous game. A lot of things can go wrong as you prepare for and make that first all important shot at a buffalo or lion. Several of those evil things can be cleaned up with a quick second shot. Depending on the PH to do that for you simply introduces yet another variable, and takes options out of your hands completely.

Kill a buffalo or two and get a real feeeling for what you are getting into. Then make a decision about that single.

Absolutely. I have hunted DG with a Ruger No. 1 in 375H&H and you definitely make sure your first shot is good. No issues from my perspective, and no concerns from any PHs that I have hunted with when I used this particular rifle, and I`ve never met a PH who is was afraid to voice his opinion.

The was a little sarcasm in my post above.

From reading on various forums and from some of the dangerous game hunting shows I've watched, it would seem that it's not uncommon for the PH to want to "collaborate" and even shoot at the same time as the client. Of course the PH says the client's bullet would have killed the beast anyway.

In my opinion, dangerous game hunting is risky by definition. If a PH has gotten to the place of thinking collaboration is needed for every client he should probably do something else. If I paid a bunch of money to hunt dangerous game, I'd be quite unhappy if the PH shot it for me. Some would call this attitude unreasonable or arrogant; I don't really care since it's my money to spend or not spend.

And no, I would not go dangerous game hunting with a single shot gun. In fact, I think hunting dangerous game with a bow is a stunt and a joke.

My inexperienced 2 cents worth. I pretty much agree with all of you, BUT, if I am hunting an animal that could stomp me, gore me or eat me, I want my PH to SHOOT IF HE THINKS IT'S NECESSARY. I promise you I will get over it if he hurts my feelings. We can talk about it around the fire that night.

Let me give you a real world event that happened to me in July. I'm also a single shot fan in general so not vehemently against them.

Tracked a dugga boy for 27km. Walked 7km to the cruiser. Rehydrated from sheer exhaustion and headed to the pan we thought he was headed for via cruiser. We set up at the pan 8-10 minutes from dark. Enter a herd of buffalo with many nice bulls but no hard boss dugga boys. 2 minutes later from opposite direction in comes my Dugga boy.

We agree my PH will back me as we have 5-7 minutes of daylight and we do not want to stalk a buffalo at dark. I land a perfect shot at 66 yards with a 300gr a-frame. He comes right across the pan in 18" of water and I take a lousy second shot. PH takes a poke with his 458 and hits no mans land. His shot was not effective but it was determined then no further backing was necessary as I had clear shots and we had a mortally wounded buffalo from shot 1. I shoot again and he turns at 20 yards. I shoot again, he gets to dry ground at 40 yards to our 90 degree left and I empty my magazine thoughtfully with steady aim on him as he is alive but already down.

At 2pm we could have left it at one shot and then turned him with my solid, let him stiffen and called it a wrap. PH courtesy insured we had a Dead Right There plan so that buffalo would be retrieved safely and not fed to the lions that night. My ego is not bruised at all by that prudent approach because safety was primary importance, humane dispatch 2nd, recovery was 3rd.

Had I used a single shot that animal would have been dead at 200 yards (assuming I reloaded and turned him or PH turned him) away and we would have left him until morning for our safety. Lions would have ate the hide/flesh.

Firearm choices have consequences. Only a DR or my magazine rifle would have provided the DRT method with minutes of daylight left AND a PH backing me for insurance if it didn't appear I had control of the situation as the hunter.

As usual, a good story! And with the nice guns you have had for sale recently, it appears you did not suffer any hardship because your PH made an effort to assist!

Nah. It's a great experience and great PHs with good judgment. So nice being on the same page with your guide.

As to rifles, I had my 500 express DR but was too tired to carry it any further and it was late in the day...I wanted my scoped 375.

Most shocking thing about the 375 for me is that it is not a lightning bolt from almighty on buffalo. It's truly minimum reasonable for a death within minutes. Love my 375H&H but think I'll use a 470 DR or a 404J next I tangle with dugga boys. The 375 has the expansion to make a wound channel and kill but it doesn't have the shock energy (hydrostatic?) to cause the instant central nervous system damage that the magnums can cause.

If I was using a single shot I think I'd opt for a 458lott or 470 hoping the first shot stunned the animal so the reload is for a coup de grace on an already destabilized animal. The let them run off 100-200 yards to stiffin plan with a single shot in moderate caliber seems like it could create some challenges. Not a bad thing to be challenged, just requires some contingency planning and a positive attitude if things don't work out perfectly.

Thank you for replys, I was looking to provide some thought provoking conversation. For the record I would hunt with a single. However banking on tradition I will always take a double (or 2) to Africa. 2018 planning on lion and ??? and a few nocturnal kritters. My next hard choice will be 450/400 double, 405WIN double, or 45/70 double (405 gr at 1950fps not trapdoor loads) 9.3x62 mauser for nocturnal. I know it sucks being me to ave to make that hard decision

Interesting discussion! I don't think i'm skilled enough to hunt dangerous game with a single shot, but have nothing against the select few who have the skills and ambition.

Extra shots are insurance. So pretty simple individual answer in my opinion. Would you hunt DG without insurance?

I wouldn't, but others will.

Like others have said, I don't want to rely on the PH alone for my safety, nor do I want to increase his/her peril by not being able to pump an extra shot into an animal as it is running off. The buffalo in my avatar dropped to a second shot, one I would have not had time to make with a single shot rifle.

Here is a question for the hunters. What would you think if you showed up at camp and your PH said he would be backing you up with a Ruger No 1, but not to worry, its a Lott.

And yes, I know there is a difference between hunter and PH and rifle requirements, but something to think about never the less.

Would I (use a single shot for dangerous game)? Yes, absolutely (conditions permitting, of course).