USFWS Decision on Importation of Lion Trophies from South Africa

@Philip Glass I think your proposal is an excellent one.

I wonder. What if the RSA government levied the tax on ranch lions and gave the proceeds to conservation efforts? Would that demonstrate adequate contribution to conservation? Can't get much more concrete than directly contributing funds to conservation efforts. ...
 
johnnyblues said:
Well there goes any chance for me to hunt a lion and import it home. Fenced hunts for lion were in a price range manageable for me, but true wild lion hunts are pretty much out of my budget.
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I am in the same boat - was hoping to hunt lion in SA this year as well as leopard...
 
The USA is taking the stance that ranch hunts are "trophy hunts", there is no reason to do these hunts because you are selling animals. Which if you talk to the anti-hunters they are mortified to find out something is raised and then sold later.

I tell them it's no different than the hamburger, chicken and fish you eat. Somehow you think lion is different than cow, chicken, fish or pig....to me they are all animals. Some are more expensive to raise than others but in the end they are animals.
 
I think we should write a letter to USFWS or CITES. Come up with ideas or sentences, have someone make it comprehensive, get as many signatures as possible to show that we're not just a minority and send it. We should at least be able to get some semblance of a conversation going
 
Does USFW attend SCI? If so I would appreciate an open forum with facts based on this topic versus everything behind closed doors.

dt
 
My two cents on this. I feel that the captive bred lions that are already inside of the high fenced ranches are going to be killed off till their numbers are very very low. The cost and pain in the butt of keeping a lion fed and not eating all the other trophies, is not going to justify keeping them around. i speak for myself, but I would be very hard pressed to hunt a lion and have nothing but a picture to remember it by.

Two days ago I got an email for a 5 day hunt for $4,000 for a lioness hunt and $6,800 for a male hunt (neither importable). I really don't know how a landowner can justify keeping a dangerous predator around for that cost. I think the lions are going to be the ones that get hurt the most by all of this
 
HTXHunter said:
i speak for myself, but I would be very hard pressed to hunt a lion and have nothing but a picture to remember it by.
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Resepect that it's your choice and of course your money, but I wonder how much is the experience worth to you versus the taxidermy? I just took a lioness a week and a half ago. I'll never see that lioness again (perhaps the skull in the Serapa lodge) in the form of a mount. But I assure you the image and experience will never be forgotten.

And furthermore by doing so I get the satisfaction of telling the USFWS to stick it in their ear, they won't keep me from doing what I love.
 
PHOENIX PHIL said:
Resepect that it's your choice and of course your money, but I wonder how much is the experience worth to you versus the taxidermy? I just took a lioness a week and a half ago. I'll never see that lioness again (perhaps the skull in the Serapa lodge) in the form of a mount. But I assure you the image and experience will never be forgotten.

And furthermore by doing so I get the satisfaction of telling the USFWS to stick it in their ear, they won't keep me from doing what I love.
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I don't mean to say that it's just the skin that I'm after, I just think that the mount is a huge part of the hunt, and something you will look at at and remember for the rest of your life. It would be an awesome experience to hunt one, but to me it would just take a lot out of it.

I love hunting and always have since I watched my dad take a doe when I was around 6. I have not been able to hunt as much as I'd like to growing up as my dad used to work A LOT and even as I am grown up bills, family etc get in the way. The taxidermy means a lot to me because I passed on getting mounts done of animals when I first started hunting and I have regretted it that decision now. The hunts were still a blast and some of my best experiences growing up but i do kind of kick myself for not having more than just a picture.
 
HTXHunter said:
I don't mean to say that it's just the skin that I'm after, I just think that the mount is a huge part of the hunt, and something you will look at at and remember for the rest of your life. It would be an awesome experience to hunt one, but to me it would just take a lot out of it.

I love hunting and always have since I watched my dad take a doe when I was around 6. I have not been able to hunt as much as I'd like to growing up as my dad used to work A LOT and even as I am grown up bills, family etc get in the way. The taxidermy means a lot to me because I passed on getting mounts done of animals when I first started hunting and I have regretted it that decision now. The hunts were still a blast and some of my best experiences growing up but i do kind of kick myself for not having more than just a picture.
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I appreciate the taxidermy too and wish I could bring my lioness home, I just won't let it stop me that I can't. Gov't wins and I/we lose if I do.
 
HTXHunter said:
Two days ago I got an email for a 5 day hunt for $4,000 for a lioness hunt and $6,800 for a male hunt (neither importable). I really don't know how a landowner can justify keeping a dangerous predator around for that cost. I think the lions are going to be the ones that get hurt the most by all of this
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Fully agree that the lions are the biggest losers in all this.

But I disagree with your comment about not doing a lion hunt such as being discussed because of the import restriction, on this point I agree with and appreciate Plil's comments.

However the prices you list have not gotten low enough to trigger this for me yet, but heading to that point!
 
I thought of taking one with hopes one day to be able to import but feel in the process of permits will ask of date animal taken and if done during the ban period it will be a no go. I am surprised the males have dipped that low in price but anything they can get is better than 0 but feel they will get cheaper before they kill them off but just goes to show the fucktards at USFWS have no clue that their decision holds the balance of serveral lions to be destroyed.
My opinion on the captive bred lions gives a avid hunter the opportunity to hunt a majestic animal at an affordable price but at the same time takes a little pressure off the wild lions giving them a chance to flourish but also at the same time if the wild lions ve no value they will be slaughtered for killing the Maisi cattle.
 
And furthermore by doing so I get the satisfaction of telling the USFWS to stick it in their ear, they won't keep me fromdoing what I love.
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@PHOENIX PHIL

Hear hear. I'll say this- as sad and misguided as this USFW decision is, anyone that holds off on a lion hunt just because they want the trophy is cheating themselves. The experience is amazing- to stalk an apex predator on foot, on essentially equal terms. .. words don't do it justice.


And in terms of remembering a hunt, there are so many ways to remember a hunt these days- photos, videos, etc. If anything, we love the video of our hunt the most, show it to all of our friends and relatives. I'm also compiling a photo book, which should make a nice memento. I have a bronzed replica lion skull on display, etc.

At the current pricing, go for just the hunt. That's cheaper than mountain lion or elk in many cases. You'll regret not doing it down the road when the opportunity truly doesn't exist anymore.
 
rinehart0050 said:
@PHOENIX PHIL

Hear hear. I'll say this- as sad and misguided as this USFW decision is, anyone that holds off on a lion hunt just because they want the trophy is cheating themselves. The experience is amazing- to stalk an apex predator on foot, on essentially equal terms. .. words don't do it justice.


And in terms of remembering a hunt, there are so many ways to remember a hunt these days- photos, videos, etc. If anything, we love the video of our hunt the most, show it to all of our friends and relatives. I'm also compiling a photo book, which should make a nice memento. I have a bronzed replica lion skull on display, etc.

At the current pricing, go for just the hunt. That's cheaper than mountain lion or elk in many cases. You'll regret not doing it down the road when the opportunity truly doesn't exist anymore.
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That's a good way to put it. I don't mean to cheapen the experience by saying the trophy is all I'm after. I am definitely no expert in this matter, but I think you've helped me understand the whole situation better
 
Don't get me wrong I was going in 2014 and I decided to postpone until 2016 and just before I left the imposed the ban so I had to shift gears for plainsgame again. I will get one but planning on pulling trigger on a deposit the second they lift or show interest in allowing import before price skyrockets. Always had plans for lioness as Males are way out of my budget. However if it looks as to be permanent then I will still do lioness as a photo hunt.
 
If you know of any Lioness in $3000 range let me know 4k is too high for just photo
 
According to USFWS, are all captive born lion hunts off limits for import or is this still something in progress like that elephant permit?
 
Hmm, I am strongly considering going on one of these for that price. I might just get the taxidermy work done and leave the mount in RSA until I can get my own place there and then put it in my summer home.
 
I never thought about hunting a lion, didn't interest me 1 bit, but after being in South Africa earlier this year and hearing of an immature male or possibly a leopard killing a young Kudu bull not far from our lodge my mind was completely changed, I was really hoping we would find a fresh track so my guide could remove this animal from his property and I could witness first hand a lion hunt.
I would not think twice about an affordable lion hunt that was non exportable, the thought gets my motor running that's for sure. enjoy the moment and the hunt whether you can take the trophies home or not, but throw in a Cape buff and that would be an awesome hunt.
 
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