School me on .375, velocity, and Dangerous Game

Tarheelpwr said:

...What barrel length does the H&H need? What's sort of a minimum and ideal length.

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Mine has a 22" and feels very handy. I have my 300gr RN at 2530 fps and 270 PP at 2650 fps, so I haven't experienced any significant loss of velocity with the shorter barrel.

Just the big blocks up until around 71-72!

Just a point of order. I believe a 375 and a 404 in equal weight guns are virtually the same recoil.

I would not avoid the 404 on a recoil basis. It's just not as versatile on say suni or klipspringer using solids. (So I'm told, I've shot neither)

Wayne's CZ No 1 Upgrade was awesome. He will smooth out the action for you too if you ask, I can't imagine he would charge much for that. I would say 22" is minimum, I'm happy with 24". Here's a picture of mine, it's re-barreled to 500 Jeffery, but otherwise the same.

Rook - based on everything I've run, seems like the 404 is almost 25% more in a 1 pound heavier rifle. That's with a 9# .375 with 300gr at 2500 FPS and a 10# 404 with 400gr at 2400 FPS. I'm showing ~38 vs 52 for the recoil. That's what I was basing it on.

Colorado - that CZ wood looks great! Is that a factory stock? Just luck of the draw? Did you refinish it?

When I bought my first .375 I had never fired anything bigger than a .338 Win Mag. I know some people say that he .338 was a kicker, but I had a savage hog hunter with a 20" barrel that weighed about 7.5lbs. It also had a 1" thick gel pad and it wasn't all that bad. Going to a .375 was definitely a bit a step up in terms of recoil but it is still not obtrusive. I got my first chance to shoot a .416 Rem. and let me tell you, going back to the .375 afterward, it felt positively pop-gun-like afterward. After shooting my .375 for a while, I really grew to love it. I shoot it about once or twice a month and it is my favorite gun to shoot and hunt with. It weighs about 9.5-10 lbs with scope and ammo in it and it is not burdensome at all and I hike about 1000 vertical feet to get to my hunting grounds. I load a 270 grain bullet to roughly 2650 with Alliant RL17 powder and it is a real shooter. This is a very mild load and I would guess that the pressure is not more than 45,000psi, well below the .375's max of 62k. In my mind, The animal will never know the difference and it saves wear and tear on my gun. But don't kid yourself, even the .380 Howell is still going to give you quite a thump off of a bench. Shooting anything bigger than any of the .35's or .35 mags requires you to shoot standing or off sticks to get any serious number of rounds downrange without developing a flinch. Unless you're impervious to recoil (I get the impression some of the members here have the shoulder of an Asgardian. They take the beating and still shoot straight time and time again.) I would say, sight in the rifle, and then practice shooting off sticks.

I haven't used it on dangerous game yet so I can't tell you anything about that but I can say that the .380 Howell almost perfectly matches the ballistics for the .375 Flanged H&H nitro express. It is the .375 for doubles and It has been used fairly successfully on DG.

My .375 H&H is Winchester M70 and it is a delight to shoot. Sure it rocks you more than a .30-06 but I'll tell you what, the next time you shoot your deer rifle, it will feel like a .223. Enjoy the king of calibers!

Thanks Chris.

I think I've all but ruled out the 380. It doesn't make sense once I look past the cool factor of a wildcat. It is going to recoil almost EXACTLY the same as the H&H once you factor in the weight difference. I don't plan on humping this gun for miles at elevation.

Now, I think I'm just debating whether I want to go with an all weather (mod 70 SS Classic style) or just go with a CZ 550 since I have a line on a pretty nice one relatively cheaply. At least in my eyes.

What is a fair price for a used CZ 550 that has been bedded and includes a set of Talley 30mm QDs? I want to make sure I'm correct. Also, what is a fair price for a Mod 70 SS Classic?

I guess I could also Cerakote a 550 to get most of the benefits of all weather; everything minus the bore.

Chris

Tarheelpwr said:

Thanks Chris.

I think I've all but ruled out the 380. It doesn't make sense once I look past the cool factor of a wildcat. It is going to recoil almost EXACTLY the same as the H&H once you factor in the weight difference. I don't plan on humping this gun for miles at elevation.

Now, I think I'm just debating whether I want to go with an all weather (mod 70 SS Classic style) or just go with a CZ 550 since I have a line on a pretty nice one relatively cheaply. At least in my eyes.

What is a fair price for a used CZ 550 that has been bedded and includes a set of Talley 30mm QDs? I want to make sure I'm correct. Also, what is a fair price for a Mod 70 SS Classic?

I guess I could also Cerakote a 550 to get most of the benefits of all weather; everything minus the bore.

Chris

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I wouldn't pay more than $1100 - $1200 for a Win Model 70 SS used. I am pretty sure all the classic models are CRF. Otherwise I wouldn't pay more than $700 for it. For the Used CZ550 I would think maybe $800-$1000 depending on condition. Kittery Trading post in Maine had a 550 American in .375 H&H band new for $999.99. I passed on it and now I am kicking myself, because I ended up paying $1400 for my Winchester. Oh well... My winchester is still a super sweet, smooth and beautiful gun!

I think you made the right choice... The first time you pick up a .375 H&H cartridge and snap it into the magazine, you can be forgiven if you start speaking in a british accent and hallucinating that you are standing next to Blaney Percival as he tracks down man eating lions on the Athi plains in his wide brimmed Borsalino hat.

I think I can get the CZ for $800-$850 to my FFL, so add on $20 for the xfer. I think that's pretty good considering it is bedded and includes the rings as well.

Tarheelpwr said:

I think I can get the CZ for $800-$850 to my FFL, so add on $20 for the xfer. I think that's pretty good considering it is bedded and includes the rings as well.

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It's a good deal I paid 750.00 for mine but I had to buy the Quick release Mounts so add a 100.00, I think you'll like the CZ, and that extra round capacity may come in handy some day. If you scrounge e-bay you might be able to pick up a used set of Dies, Brass and bullets are EZ and if you wrapped up the purchase already get over to Midway and grab up some very cheap 375 bullets

Tarheelpwr said:

I think I can get the CZ for $800-$850 to my FFL, so add on $20 for the xfer. I think that's pretty good considering it is bedded and includes the rings as well.

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That is a good deal! Every FFL around me charges $40 minimum for a transfer so if you can get it done for $20 thats pretty good! Of course... I live in the Socialist republic of New York. Dang city people down south ruin everything. No offense to anyone on AH from NYC I know it isn't your doing.. Upstate is a completely different culture. (and no, upstate does not begin at White Plains.)

Purchase is not wrapped up yet,but it's been sitting a while. I already ordered 300 270gr from midway. $17.50 was too good to pass up. Worst case, I figured I could easily get my money back if I don't get a .375. Best case I have cheap plonk era and a bullet that will handle 95-100% of my needs for now.

Tarheelpwr said:

Purchase is not wrapped up yet,but it's been sitting a while. I already ordered 300 270gr from midway. $17.50 was too good to pass up. Worst case, I figured I could easily get my money back if I don't get a .375. Best case I have cheap plonk era and a bullet that will handle 95-100% of my needs for now.

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Those are great practice bullets! I have bought hundreds of them! I wouldn't use them on anything bigger than black bear though. I have fired them into snow and they blew up, completely separated and fragmented. That was back before I slowed them down though. They were up over 2,800 fps. they might do better loaded to 2500 - 2600 fps.

ChrisG said:

Those are great practice bullets! I have bought hundreds of them! I wouldn't use them on anything bigger than black bear though. I have fired them into snow and they blew up, completely separated and fragmented. That was back before I slowed them down though. They were up over 2,800 fps. they might do better loaded to 2500 - 2600 fps.

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Good to know. I'm sure I'll test them on something small just for fun. Worst case I'll get familiar with the rifle VERY cheaply.

Tarheelpwr said:

Good to know. I'm sure I'll test them on something small just for fun. Worst case I'll get familiar with the rifle VERY cheaply.

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Have fun is all I can say! I love the .375 and the only thing that makes it more fun is reloading your own ammo for it! With those Midway bullets, It is about the same price as reloading .308 ammo!

As far as weight my Whitworth/Zastava weighs in at 10.3lbs scoped, my CZ550 375 donor rebarreled to 404 jeff weighs in at 11.3 scoped with a Mercury reduced in the stock. I would think that anything 8-9 lbs in either a 375 or 380 would be a nasty recoiler.

Tarheelpwr said:

That helps, so 9# is the benchmark for weight. Is that gun weight, or all up weight? Just wondering because I see the Kimber and Sako .375 both weigh 8# as rifles. They'd be right about 9# scoped.

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I should say the 9# ideal for me is gun weight in the .375 H&H. With a good recoil pad on a properly fit stock, 9# makes the .375 H&H pretty manageable. On paper at least, a 7.5lb .30-06 with 150grn pills and a 9.5lb 375 H&H with 250's have very similar recoil, relatively mild in their respective classes (both rifles all up as fired). So I tend to plan on a 9lb bare rifle in .375 H&H being about right, which means it'll mind its manners even better loaded and scoped.

If you're really recoil adverse - if a lighter weight ~7.5lb total .30-06 is at the top of your recoil tolerance, then throw at least half pound at your .375 bore over my 9lb guide post. Some guys live on the premise the rifle is carried long and shot few, so getting smoked by recoil is OK as long as the rifle is easily carried, and I'm sure for some guys, that's true. For me, I don't care for recoil, I shoot for practice a lot, and I'm young and strong enough to not mind carrying a extra rifle weight. I run and gun coyotes with a 13lb rifle around home, carrying an 11lb iron sight .458wm isn't a big deal.

I have a custom classic Rigby style M98 express rifle built up in 9.3x66 Sako (aka 370 Mag) that would be very close to the 380 Howell in performance. The rifle is very balanced, reasonably light and trim. Perfect stalking rifle with good range and a bit of grunt.

Comparing her to the 375 H&Hs I've owned, she's a pound lighted, less bulky, holds 5 rounds and quicker at snap shooting and follow-up shots due to the above, along with a shorter action throw. Does she kick? Yes, but the stock is well fitted and I would say felt recoil is no issue, and certainly no more than a std 375 H&H would be.

I'm very pleased with with her and she does everything I ask of her. If shit hit the fan, would I reach for her over a 375 H&H? Yes, primarily due to her packability and deadly speed to put into action. To me, this out weighs a bit more power that the 375 H&H has. I don't think an animal would notice the difference though. Calibre aside, this just goes to show you that the rifle itself plays a very important role in determining which is your "go to" gun.

Yes, ammo availability is a concern if lost. But this has never happened to me yet over three and a half decades hunting. If I'm worried, I'll check two bags and put half in each, so if one is lost or delayed I'm still in the action.

If I was to do it again, would I do it the same? I would build up the exact same rifle, but would only consider the 375 Ruger as a different calibre option. That is something you might want to consider as well.

As such, I have what I have and am very pleased with her.

A couple of things to think of in most African countries you need a proper head stamp on the brass. If the only head stamped brass you can get is Bertram that's not so good Bertram brass is garbage.

If a rifle were engraved 375-300WSM and the brass was marked 300WSM is that "near enough"??