Double rifle jammed shut

Bos Javanicus · Jun 23, 2016

Hi Guy's
Here's one for the gunsmiths out there. I fired two shots out of my Merkel 140 A-E .500NE, and now it won't open, the lever is almost solid. The lever moves enough to move the cross bolt maybe .010"/.020" and then it's solid. To me it feels like something has come adrift in the action and locking it up?? Loads were not hot and using Hornady brass. If it was a head seperation. I would of expected to still be able to open it??

Anyone heard of this with a Merkel or any other double?

Regards

petrusg · Jun 23, 2016

This has never happened to me so would like to see some of these replies to educate myself a bit.

PaulT · Jun 23, 2016

Is there any movement at all when you try to open the gun ?
Do you feel a little snag when you try, like it may be hitting something ?
If so you may have snapped a firing pin which is snagging on the cartridge case when trying to open ?

If your gun is properly seized up and refuses to open at all you may have fired a hot load which has exceeding pressure tolerable for that particular action, this can be caused by a lot of things, not the least, nor am I implying, hand-loading procedures.

If the action is opening even the smallest amount before refusing to open any further then it would suggest to me that perhaps either there has been some partial case separation that is preventing opening or that one of the firing pins my have snapped and is fouling the back of the case on opening.

Best of luck.

sierraone · Jun 23, 2016

Don't own a double rifle "yet", but am also interested in what might cause this!

CAustin · Jun 23, 2016

This is the kind of thing that would have me driving to the Gunsmith for sure!

PaulT · Jun 23, 2016

CAustin said:
This is the kind of thing that would have me driving to the Gunsmith for sure!

Proper advice.

Have you tried removing the forearm and then taking the barrels off.
Not sure this would work, dependent on the cause, but it may work.

rookhawk · Jun 23, 2016

@PaulT is hitting on all cylinders for advice here. A broken striker is a likely candidate. Sometimes vertical fidgeting with the gun and light bouncing off the ground can get the striker if broken to settle down into the breech so it will open.

Definitely attempting manipulations with the forend off is key.

Last thing to check if it applies (i'm not a merkel guy so I'm speaking in generalities) is if it has a greener type cross bolt sometimes there is a bolt cap on the outside. If you remove this cap you can manipulate the cross bolt and get it off the third bite. (again, only if all these conditions apply)

johneracer · Jun 23, 2016

I would lightly tap the lever with soft mallet. Broken striker would not allow the rifle to break open. Very light tap, if that doesn't do it, go see a smith. I'm sorry it happened to you and I would be upset. On a separate note if this was a sabatti, Internet would collapse from negative comments.

rinehart0050 · Jun 23, 2016

johneracer said:
On a separate note if this was a sabatti, Internet would collapse from negative comments.

So true @johneracer

crs · Jun 23, 2016

IIRC, the Merkel has a Greener cross bolt much like (very much actually) my Simson Suhl double.

Early on, I did such a great job cleaning the rifle after an outing, that the release lever could not move the cross bolt and of course, the action could not open.
The cure was a few drops of oil on the cross bolt.
Now I always thoroughly oil the cross bolt after each cleaning ( which by the way is to be tomorrow).
If yours is really tight, some penetrating oil may be needed.

rookhawk · Jun 23, 2016

One final thought before you send it to a smith. Insert a dowel into the muzzle and down into the brass. Use a VERY light mallet (couple ounces) and give it very light taps. Not to break of bend anything, just to see if you can get a broken striker to vibrate back into the receiver or to loosen a stuck cartridge. If it doesn't open (forend off) after that, get it to a quality DR smith.

All recommendations are in two valid camps: vibrate a broken part so it will open OR lubricate a stuck part so it will open. If neither works you need a smith.

Sika98k · Jun 24, 2016

A while ago the action bar on my Webley&Scott shotgun broke/snapped. In the field I was perturbed and pissed off.
I was initially unable to diagnose the cause of being unable to open the gun.
By,I think,pure chance I pointed the gun upwards and gave the action a tap while pushing the top lever over. It opened.
Not saying this is what has happened to yours but I have owned a number of shotguns,mostly English of varying vintages and things do happen !
Give it a try.

Red Leg · Jun 24, 2016

Not sure your options down under, but if you need to take it to a smith, please don't use a guy that has been Sporterizing Enfields and hot bluing Remingtons for a living. A huge number of doubles (guns and rifles) have been buggered up by shade tree gunsmiths over the years.

crs · Jun 24, 2016

Another thought on your Merkel - if it is brand new.
A few years ago, I bought a brand new Parker repro 20 gauge and took it to the skeet range; after shooting some shells with aluminum bases, it would not open. I took it to the regional Parker repro smith and he told me the new ones are too tight for anything but brass based shells.
He took it apart , opened it, removed the empty hulls, oiled it good, and put it back together. He then tested it with brass based shells and it functioned properly.
I switched back to brass based shells right away and had no more such problems. I also oiled all the contact surfaces after each cleaning to minimize friction.

DUGABOY1 · Jun 30, 2016

The Merkels have a greener cross bolt and will not open if the lever doesn’t move the cross bolt enough to clear the hole in the rib extension. Removing the fore end wood will not help.

A broken firing pin will not cause the lever to not open. As far as I know the only thing that will lock up a Merkel double rifle so tight the lever will not move is an extremely hot load and if the load is too hot and both were fired it will be even tighter locked up.

The one other thing that could possibly be a factor is something coming loose inside the locks (HAMMERS) that is blocking the under bolts from sliding to the rear to disengage the bite in the under lugs. However I would bet my next retirement check that this was caused by a pair of hot loads. If you are hand loading I would look very closely at the powder charge that was loaded in the rounds to make sure the loads were right. If the rounds were factory ammo then they could still be badly hot loads. What kind of ammo was shot in this rifle?

In any event do not take this rifle to just anyone for a fix. The gun smith needs to be a well trained double rifle smith, not a bailing wire fixer!

……………………………………….Mac

Bos Javanicus · Jul 13, 2016

Well it's fixed now!! And sheepishly I have to confess it was a bloody hot load. The gunsmith just tapped the lever to the side and obviously harder than I was prepared to do it. Both primers just fell out, and staining on the face can be seen where the gases have blown past.
Now, I've been reloading for years now and I'm still not sure how I done it. Eventually a mistake gets made and I've just made mine. Luckily no damage to the rifle or owner.
I shoot 106gns of AR2209 and a Woodleigh 570g projectile and after pulling the remaining 30 odd rounds each one was spot on 106gns. So what I assume now is that I used AR2208 by mistake.
A lot more caution will be used in future.

Thanks for all the advice guys, much appreciated.

Clayton · Jul 13, 2016

Glad no harm done. As the saying goes: The devil is in the details.

matt85 · Jul 13, 2016

I'm glad to hear this was worked out. I'm guilty of having a bunch of different powders at my table at once, ill take your experience as a warning to myself as well.

johneracer said:
On a separate note if this was a sabatti, Internet would collapse from negative comments.

there is a good reason for that, the Sabatti brand earned every ounce of its bad reputation by making poor quality rifles. I made the foolish choice of buying one at one point...

-matt

TTundra · Jul 13, 2016

While a reminder to caution for all of us...I'm sure a huge relief when that was diagnosed as the issue.

PHOENIX PHIL · Jul 13, 2016

Bos Javanicus said:
Well it's fixed now!! And sheepishly I have to confess it was a bloody hot load. The gunsmith just tapped the lever to the side and obviously harder than I was prepared to do it. Both primers just fell out, and staining on the face can be seen where the gases have blown past.
Now, I've been reloading for years now and I'm still not sure how I done it. Eventually a mistake gets made and I've just made mine. Luckily no damage to the rifle or owner.
I shoot 106gns of AR2209 and a Woodleigh 570g projectile and after pulling the remaining 30 odd rounds each one was spot on 106gns. So what I assume now is that I used AR2208 by mistake.
A lot more caution will be used in future.

Thanks for all the advice guys, much appreciated.

Glad it worked out and did so apparently without any damage.

The value of forums like this relies not only on people sharing their successes, but also their failures. It's easy to do the former but one has to swallow their pride and accept their not flawless to do the latter. It's worth it though if you helped someone learn and not repeat the mistake.

So good on you for revisiting the thread and being honest about what happened!

Double rifle jammed shut

Bos Javanicus

petrusg

PaulT

sierraone

CAustin

PaulT

rookhawk

johneracer

rinehart0050

crs

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