165 or 200 grain load for 300WM?

enysse said:

I agree Swift A-frame and TTSX are terrific too. I like heavy bullets too, with Barnes you can go lighter. Eland, zebra and sable are not small and weak, wildebeest can run a long way if not hit good and proper.

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What a terrific animal!

Kudurifle said:

We'll be hunting outside of Kruger as well as Komati River in Swaziland. Perhaps that is where the longer shots will be? I don't know, first hunt in Africa. That is what PH told me. So the consensus is that the 165 is plenty. Even for Zebra and Blue Wildebeest? I hear they are tough critters!

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Personally, I'd go with the 180 TTSX, but that's what I have personally seen work so well.

I really see no reason to tackle tough PG with the 165 if your rifle shoots the 180 well enough.

I actually had 2 Zebra stop 180 TTSX in the far skin. Although I did go through both shoulders of an Eland with the same load.

Lots of variables. But again, I see no reason to use the 165 over the 180 on these animals.

Trajectory differences will be miniscule. You won't be able to shoot off sticks accurately enough at 300 yards to tell the difference (comparing TTSX to TTSX).

Others have more/varied experience than I do...so just my $0.02.

Tim

Kudurifle said:

We'll be hunting outside of Kruger as well as Komati River in Swaziland. Perhaps that is where the longer shots will be? I don't know, first hunt in Africa. That is what PH told me. So the consensus is that the 165 is plenty. Even for Zebra and Blue Wildebeest? I hear they are tough critters!

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Hi Kudurifle,

The .300 Winchester is IMO an overly-fast cartridge for the Limpopo area, especially with a 165 gr bullet (think of hunting conditions in the Ozarks of Northern Arkansas/Southern Missouri), in terms of valuable meat ruined at close range.
That cartridge has been commonly used as an excellent super long range competition round, if that helps clarify my above comment.
However, it likewise has been happily used by hunters all over the world as well and so my opinion is not intended as The Gospel, it's only intended as a shade tree opinion from yet another rifle enthusiast.

I've not been to Swaziland so, I cannot say what the conditions are there but have been to Limpopo three times and cartridges like the .35 Whelen / 250 grain round nose and 9.3x62 / 286 grain round nose seem Like they'd be about perfect in the dense riverine forests and moderate to thick thorn forest that dominates most of Limpopo District.
Most shots are under 100 yards.
You might get a 200 yard shot across a canyon but I would not count on it happening necessarily.

Well anyway, regarding your .300 Winchester bullet weight question - I would recommend the heaviest Swift A-Frame bullet your rifle will shoot accurately.

I have a basic distrust for hollow point bullets (long story) however, if ever there was a cartridge suited to the Barnes line of monometal expanding bullets, the .300 Winchester would definitely be a contender.
So, if you like those, you have the right rifle to use them in (high velocity is good for hollow point function).

However, your PH will really appreciate you asking him or her what bullet/load they recommend.
Many of them were born and raised where they are guiding, furthermore, most of them were raised with a hunting rifle in their hands.

It can pay untold dividends to follow your PH's suggestions.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

Kudurifle said:

We'll be hunting outside of Kruger as well as Komati River in Swaziland. Perhaps that is where the longer shots will be? I don't know, first hunt in Africa. That is what PH told me. So the consensus is that the 165 is plenty. Even for Zebra and Blue Wildebeest? I hear they are tough critters!

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What are you hunting in Swaziland?

@tarbe, OP mentioned 180's don't shoot well in his rifle.

@Velo Dog, I don't disagree that 165's in the .300 Win Mag are way faster than necessary in the Limpopo. But the TSX/TTSX bullets from what I can see can't be driven too fast, too slow is the bigger worry causing them to not open as well.

All that said @Kudurifle, I like a heavy bullet too. It may be in some circumstances overkill, but there's really no such thing in my mind. My personal favorite bullet as many here know as I harp about them all the time is the North Fork Bonded Cores. A very similar bullet with regards to performance is the Swift A-Frame. My M70 in .300 Win Mag got along with the 200gr A-Frames fairly well, but did better with the 200gr North Forks. I'd use that rifle with the 200gr North Forks to shoot at any PG to include Eland. In fact I killed an Eland with that load.

The North Forks aren't cheap but neither is a trophy fee for a lost animal. Not sure what powder you're using with the 200gr Accubonds, but I found that my M70 shot those well too with H4831 for 2850fps or thereabouts. The same powder worked well with the North Forks and A-Frames. You may want to give them both a go. The North Forks can also be ordered in 20 bullet sample packs if you just want to try them and see how they do.

I will also say this about the North Forks, they're a bit picky on brass. Because they're cut much closer to your bore diameter of .308, they're more sensitive to a good consistent neck concentricity. As such I always now load them with either Lapua or Norma brass.

If you go with an A-Frame or NF, you'll not get that great BC that the Accubond gives, but you're bullet will weigh roughly 90% or more of it's original weight and give great penetration. I'd simply characterize where your bullet is landing at 300 yards with a 2" high at 100 yards zero.

PHOENIX PHIL said:

@tarbe, OP mentioned 180's don't shoot well in his rifle.

@Velo Dog, I don't disagree that 165's in the .300 Win Mag are way faster than necessary in the Limpopo. But the TSX/TTSX bullets from what I can see can't be driven too fast, too slow is the bigger worry causing them to not open as well.

All that said @Kudurifle, I like a heavy bullet too. It may be in some circumstances overkill, but there's really no such thing in my mind. My personal favorite bullet as many here know as I harp about them all the time is the North Fork Bonded Cores. A very similar bullet with regards to performance is the Swift A-Frame. My M70 in .300 Win Mag got along with the 200gr A-Frames fairly well, but did better with the 200gr North Forks. I'd use that rifle with the 200gr North Forks to shoot at any PG to include Eland. In fact I killed an Eland with that load.

The North Forks aren't cheap but neither is a trophy fee for a lost animal. Not sure what powder you're using with the 200gr Accubonds, but I found that my M70 shot those well too with H4831 for 2850fps or thereabouts. The same powder worked well with the North Forks and A-Frames. You may want to give them both a go. The North Forks can also be ordered in 20 bullet sample packs if you just want to try them and see how they do.

I will also say this about the North Forks, they're a bit picky on brass. Because they're cut much closer to your bore diameter of .308, they're more sensitive to a good consistent neck concentricity. As such I always now load them with either Lapua or Norma brass.

If you go with an A-Frame or NF, you'll not get that great BC that the Accubond gives, but you're bullet will weigh roughly 90% or more of it's original weight and give great penetration. I'd simply characterize where your bullet is landing at 300 yards with a 2" high at 100 yards zero.

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You don't recon the typical .300 Winchester velocity with 165 grainers would unnecessarily splatter a lot if otherwise good eating meat, at the usual woods hunting short ranges common to the Limpopo District ?

Velo Dog said:

You don't recon the typical .300 Winchester velocity with 165 grainers would unnecessarily splatter a lot if otherwise good eating meat, at the usual woods hunting short ranges common to the Limpopo District ?

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With the TSX, I don't think so. I used 180's in my .300 Winny on my first hunt. A bit slower for sure, but I did kill an Impala at about 40 yards, so that bullet was still screaming. I saw that animal skinned and meat damage didn't seem any worse than normal on a quartering too shoulder shot. Now with a Partition or more rapidly expanding bullet, I think it would be a different story. Whatever the case, he's not hunting in Africa for meat.

Velo Dog--NO the faster you push Barnes(and other ones like theirs) the better they work. They will not splatter on the animal or take out too much meat. These type of bullets tend to make a narrow impact channel compared to lead core bullets. Run them slow(or slower) and you have a very good chance of them not expanding or giving little expansion. This will allow the animal to get away and die later. Not a good thing. Also consider as per Barnes people the Barnes bullets act like a bullet 30% heavier so a 150gr Barnes is like shooting a 195 lead core bullet.

Much of the above is also true for the Swift A-Frames. They hold together very well and do not over destroy meat because of the pure copper jacket and the bonded cores. I love the bullets but in slower cartridges I prefer the Nosler Partition due to the bullet opening faster and more completely than the tougher A-Frame.
Something else to remember is to try and take out a shoulder so if the animal needs tracking it can be done easier. My PH told us to do this. He was not worried about the loss of some meat and you should not be either since you do not get to keep it.

Both bullets in 150-165gr will take any of the plains game. My daughter took Zebra/Kudu/Red Hartebeest and smaller animals using a 257Roberts and 120gr Swift A-Frames at 2899FPS. All were one shot kills not requiring tracking more than 40 yards. I selected the tougher A-Frames over the Noslers she often shoots since she would be shooting some bigger PG. It was a good choice. They have also worked well at home on deer/pigs but I prefer she shoots the 100gr Scirocco for deer and it is great.

Hunting with Ernest and Marita Dyason at Spear Safaris adjacent to Kruger and at their camp off the Komati River in Swaziland. Good point, I will ask Ernest where the longer shots may be and his opinion on bullet weight and brand.

What rifle, what rate of twist?

Well it started life as a CZ "ultimate" hunting rifle. It didn't shoot as advertised when I got it. I disassembled it with my gunsmith and found that CZ's "pillar bedding" is actually just two loose thin aluminum sleeves around the action screws and a piece of thin plastic behind the recoil lug. We properly pillar bedded and glassed the action and recoil lug. It now shoots 165s and 200s well but 180s. Twist is 1/10"

The 165 gr will have ~2" flatter trajectory @ 300 yards, but the 200 gr will pack ~200 pounds more energy. Personally I'd go with the 200 gr bullet.

Kudurifle said:

Well it started life as a CZ "ultimate" hunting rifle. It didn't shoot as advertised when I got it. I disassembled it with my gunsmith and found that CZ's "pillar bedding" is actually just two loose thin aluminum sleeves around the action screws and a piece of thin plastic behind the recoil lug. We properly pillar bedded and glassed the action and recoil lug. It now shoots 165s and 200s well but 180s. Twist is 1/10"

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I have the same rifle but it came with a 1/12" twist (bought in 2013). It wouldn't stabilize anything above 180gr. I ordered a new barrel from CZ with a 1/10" twist to correct the issue. What CZ doesn't tell you is that they don't blue the replacement barrel. It came raw even though they said it would be the same that is on the rifle I currently have just having the different twist. Fooled the CZ retailer also. They were under the impression it would be blued as well. Too many projects on the go at the moment so barrel is going to have to wait but at least I have it. Soon hopefully! Strange that a 1/10 twist won't shoot well using 180grs for you. The 300WM was designed around the 180gr bullet weight. I have a Vanguard S2 in 300WBY that will shoot 3 shot 1.1" groups at 300yds using Hornady 180g SST's.

I agree, the 300 Win Mag was made to shoot 180 grain bullets all day long.

In the Limpopo next to Kruger shots will be closer, 100 yards or so. I would use the 200 grain there as you may also have to shoot through some brush at times, in my opinion the heavier bullets may deflect less or not at all if light brush is encountered. In the second area, komati river gorge in Mpumalanga, there is a lot of Mountainous and open terrain where you may encounter 300 yard shots, if you are comfortable with those distances, if not we crawl closer!!. With this terrain in mind I would go for the 165 grain Bullets for accuracy and velocity over the longer distance. First and foremost is Bullet placement though, so use the bullet that performs best out of your rifle, it helps little if you have a great Bullet, either make model or weight, if it does not hit where you intend to hit.

PHOENIX PHIL said:

My M70 in .300 Win Mag got along with the 200gr A-Frames fairly well, but did better with the 200gr North Forks.

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Hi PHOENIX PHIL,
Your above sentence makes more sense to me, than the concept of using a 165 grain bullet does, if one is choosing a .300 magnum for hunting antelopes, etc., in short range Lowveld conditions.
Likewise, if a man cannot hit the vitals of a springbok for instance, with a 200 grain spitzer from the .300 magnum at 300 yards from sticks, I suspect that a lighter bullet weight will not help.

Divernhunter said:

Something else to remember is to try and take out a shoulder so if the animal needs tracking it can be done easier. My PH told us to do this. He was not worried about the loss of some meat and you should not be either since you do not get to keep it.

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Hi Divernhunter,
I totally agree with your above statement that a shoulder shot is standard procedure when hunting most African species (due to the heart / lungs, being situated quite far forward in many of their critters).

On the topic of unnecessary meat destruction and Southern Africa's hunting culture, you can place your bet with confidence that not many locals, (PHs included), will go about hunting in close cover for their table meat with a .300 magnum, and especially not with 165 grain bullets.
Said absence of .300 magnums/165 grain bullets on their own biltong hunts is truly what they think of such equipment for meat hunting, not polite words spoken to us clients.
When we hunt as clients in Africa, the meat from animals we shoot is valuable to the PH as food for his family and employees.
It seems like an act of respect that we foreigners not turn any more of it into bloody mush than we have to.

It's only my shade tree opinion that the OP should use the heavier bullet and I know I will make no converts to my way of thinking here, neither would I necessarily want to, just answering the original poster's question of; Which bullet to use, 165 grain or 200 grain, in his .300 Winchester.

Kind regards,
Velo Dog

All of that sounds very nice and thoughtful. My PH suggested the .300 as a plain rifle. I have a few rifles, so if he changes his mind and suggests something else, that is what I will bring!

BRICKBURN said:

Before last year I would have been slightly suspect on the 165's as I use 180's.
However, after having borrowed Buffybears rifle to take my Sable loaded with a 165 grain Barnes coming out of a 300 Weatherby Mag at the suggested speeds I no longer have any qualms with that weight.
Accuracy was incredible and all the penetration required for a one shot kill.

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Wayne, you shot your sable with a 168 grain TTSX bullet. Picky, picky, picky...

As Ikeda posted, the 165 grain bullet will shoot a little flatter and the 200 grained packs a little more energy. Either weight of the Barnes bullets will give you sufficient penetration. I'd go with the one that is the most accurate in your rifle.

Good hunting!

You've received a lot of good advice here. Virtually all bullets mentioned are proven performers. Weight ranges from 165 to 200g are very realistic for the kind of hunt you have planned.

My personal preference in my 300 WM is the 168g TSX. I chose it because (in my rifle), it grouped better than other Barnes, Nosler or Swift bullets that I tested. If something else had grouped better, I would have used that bullet instead. I think all of us would tell you that bullet placement is the MOST important thing.

One other note: The positive comments about good penetration using light-for-caliber Barnes bullets has proven true for me too.

I am guessing your P.H. is suggesting 300 yd shot distance is to make sure you are comfortable at that range. It so easy to step back to 250 yds or 200 when you are comfortable at 300.