Cartridges We Can Live Without...

FairChase · Dec 13, 2015

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/cartridges-we-can-live-without/

This was an article written by Craig Boddington in 2009. It was his observation about ammunition manufactures limiting or eliminating certain cartridges from their manufacturing schedules in order to be more efficient and contain cost. Most were included because they were the less effective duplicate.

When one considers the run on ammunition that started a few years ago, it seems to have more relevance now than when the article was first published. This has been evident at the last few SHOT Shows as the ammunition manufactures that I spoke with have become more forthright about their plans to focus on a core of "mainstream" cartridges. I understand their problem and don't blame them as there is only so much capacity a company can dedicate to low selling product without it adversely affecting the cost of other products.

So, after reading Boddington's article, would you agree or disagree with him? Would you add cartridges to this list? If so, which ones and why? For me, I would replace anything with a belt...

Badboymelvin · Dec 14, 2015

I think Craig did a good job of his list. Of course someone is going to get bent out of shape when their favourite pet cartridge doesn't make the list and of course, you cant please everyone when undertaking a topic such as this, but overall I think he did a good job.
It's been interesting to see Craig's opinion of the .458 change over the years. He was always quite anti the .458 but now seems to have made a truce with it, which is good because today, the .458 is a great round.
I'm not disagreeing with Craig but it's sad to see the 8mm Rem Mag make the cut list. It is a round I've liked and always wanted to own and indeed, it would be a great all-round big game rifle in which to hunt the world..

FairChase · Dec 14, 2015

Others I would add to the list would be the WSSM's. A failed idea that seems to have been directed towards the bench-rest crowd...

Scott Slough · Dec 14, 2015

I have a 300 win mag and a 300 Blackout ... I can live without everything else

!

FairChase · Dec 14, 2015

From the list I wrote down, the "mainstream" HUNTING cartridges that the ammunition manufacturers will be focusing on are the following in no particular order:

7mm-08 Rem.
7mm Rem. Mag.
.22 LR
.223 Rem.
.22-250
.308 Win.
.25-06 Rem.
.30-06 Springfield - even though all admit to offering a more "anemic" load due to liability issues.
.270 Win.
.300 WSM
.300 Win. Mag.
.243 Win.
.30-30 Win. - one of the top selling cartridges ever...

The large bore (DG) cartridges were explained to me to be a category handled differently that the typical hunting cartridges. The one that was mentioned as a priority was the .375 Ruger.

This isn't the entire list, just the priority cartridges from the large manufacturers; Federal/CCI, Hornady, Remington & Olin/Winchester.

One of my favorites, the .338 RCM, along with its little sister, the .300 RCM, are only made by Hornady and will remain a lower tier offering. Well, as long as the .300 RCM remains Steve Hornady's favorite.

I believe other "short-fat" cartridges are most likely to see their life continue primarily in the world of /small producers/hand-loading; .325 WSM, 7mm WSM, .300 and 7mm SAUM and as stated earlier, all the WSSM's...

CTDolan · Dec 14, 2015

Variety is the spice of life...to each their own!

CTDolan · Dec 14, 2015

I love all the odd cartridges, the history, the evolution over time. Pragmatism, taken too far, is more than boring, it is fatal.

FairChase · Dec 14, 2015

CTDolan said:
Variety is the spice of life...to each their own!

The main premise of the article is that if ammunition manufacturers are no longer able to make all the pet cartridges out there, which ones should go? An endless variety may at first seem reasonable, but if eliminating the "odd balls" resulted in increasing the availability and perhaps sustaining or even lowering the cost of the more popular cartridges, I believe most would give it more thought...

glh · Dec 14, 2015

.338 Federal-.338 Federal-.338 Federal-.338 Federal. With the excellent big case .338's already out there,who would want something that spits pip squeak 185 grain .338's.Step up and put some 250's out there at 2700 fps!

Jay Kelley · Dec 14, 2015

In the end, the manufacturers will make their decisions based on what sells and what doesn't, but it's fun to speculate (unless it's one of your favorite rounds being "speculated")

Fortunately, my favorites are mostly easy to find - .22LR, .30-30, .30-06 and .375 H&H in rifles; 20 and 12 gauge in shotguns and 9mm, .38/.357 and .44 Mag in handguns.

My only concession to hard-to-find calibers is a Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special revolver - my first large bore handgun and my concealed carry gun for a long time - can't bring myself to give it up!

Lots of great calibers out there, though. I'd like to have one of each!

JimP · Dec 14, 2015

glh said:
.338 Federal-.338 Federal-.338 Federal-.338 Federal. With the excellent big case .338's already out there,who would want something that spits pip squeak 185 grain .338's.Step up and put some 250's out there at 2700 fps!

How about a load shooting a 250 grain .338 bullet at 3000fps?

It's out there in the .338-378 Weatherby

As for getting rid of obsolete rifle rounds, there are a few out there that really don't serve a purpose other than allowing a rifle owner to be able to purchase factory ammo for their rifles.

I can understand a manufacture getting rid of a round that they are only selling a few hundred boxes of ever year but how about keeping a reasonable prices source for the brass?

Jay Kelley, on your .44 Special revolver. If you can't find factory ammo for it then it is time to reload. If you can't find .44 special brass it is easily made out of .44 mag brass by running it through a trimmer.

FairChase · Dec 14, 2015

glh said:
.338 Federal-.338 Federal-.338 Federal-.338 Federal...

I just KNEW this would come up! Earlier this year I converted my "Hog Gun" (AR-10 in .308 Win.) to .338 Federal. It is a hog killing machine! Yes, I do hand load, but the first time out, I put 200 gr. Federal Trophy Vital Shok through it and it did pretty well. The next time, I used my hand loads with 250 gr. Hornady InterLock Round Nose bullets, Vihtavuori N110. The right medicine...

Velo Dog · Dec 14, 2015

If I listed all of the cartridges I think are needless duplicates of ones that not only already existed and as a group they perfectly addressed each category of hunting conditions and animal size/tenacity, etc., but in some cases are actually inferior to their older predecessor in some way, I would probably get kicked off of this excellent forum, as if I had declared: "Everyone's Momma is a trollop".
So, don't get me started on all these "latest and greatest" cartridges, because generally speaking, they remind me of that story: "The King's New Suit" - LOL.

FairChase · Dec 14, 2015

Velo Dog said:
... So, don't get me started on all these "latest and greatest" cartridges, because generally speaking, they remind me of that story: "The King's New Suit" - LOL.

So, are you saying that in the past 100 years, the newer technology in powders, primers and bullets has not produced any better cartridges? Let me guess, the .30-06 is the best cartridge and nobody needs anything else?

tarbe · Dec 14, 2015

I think the title is a bit of a misnomer.

What he wrote about was cartridges that the factories could/should stop loading ammo for.

He was not saying the cartridges mentioned were not worth owning or loading for.

Classic examples were the 257 Roberts and 300 H&H...both of which I have personal experience with.

Neither will ever be loaded by the factory to anywhere near their potential in properly set-up rifles, with carefully concocted handloads.

So to my way of thinking, and Craig's as well, factory ammo for these rifles is a total waste.

I think that was the point Craig was making. And I agree with him.

Please excuse any incoherence. I am on my second large glass of Amarula (and thinking of Africa).

Tim

FairChase · Dec 14, 2015

tarbe said:
I think the title is a bit of a misnomer.
What he wrote about was cartridges that the factories could/should stop loading ammo for.
He was not saying the cartridges mentioned were not worth owning or loading for.
Classic examples were the 257 Roberts and 300 H&H...both of which I have personal experience with.
Neither will ever be loaded by the factory to anywhere near their potential in properly set-up rifles, with carefully concocted handloads.

So to my way of thinking, and Craig's as well, factory ammo for these rifles is a total waste.
I think that was the point Craig was making. And I agree with him.

Please excuse any incoherence. I am on my second large glass of Amarula (and thinking of Africa).

Tim

No, I think you are reading it right... He even stated his beloved 8mm Rem. Mag. should go due to lack of popularity and another cartridge filled the void...

Lomadelray · Dec 14, 2015

Not a rifle cartridge I know... but I think the world could do without the 16ga shotgun round as it seems to occupy no-mans land between the 12ga & 20ga..

Velo Dog · Dec 15, 2015

FairChase said:
So, are you saying that in the past 100 years, the newer technology in powders, primers and bullets has not produced any better cartridges? Let me guess, the .30-06 is the best cartridge and nobody needs anything else?

Not saying those things at all.
Also, regarding my opinion of the .30-06 - your guess is not accurate but, that one is a very fine hunting cartridge for sure and I do like it.

375 Ruger Fan · Dec 15, 2015

Lomadelray said:
Not a rifle cartridge I know... but I think the world could do without the 16ga shotgun round as it seems to occupy no-mans land between the 12ga & 20ga..

Agree, and this was covered in a recent Randy Wakeman article on his website (http://randywakeman.com/The16GaugeTheShotgunthatCarrieslikea12 butHitsLikea28Gauge.htm ).

A quote from that article sums it up:

"Sixteen gauges can be fun, of course, but so were mopeds and 8-track tapes at one time. It isn't that the diameter of a smooth bore barrel has great meaning. The problem is that there are not reasonable choices for high-performance 16 gauge ammo. Without high quality ammunition, the 16 gauge is destined to continue to fade further into the abyss with each passing year. It is a shame, it surely wasn't my idea, but it is reality."

FairChase · Dec 15, 2015

Velo Dog said:
Not saying those things at all...

To what "latest and greatest" cartridges are you referring? In regards to the .30-06, with most people I have had this conversation, the opinion seems to be a shorter action .308 Win. will get the same results as the .30-06. For newer cartridges, I mentioned the WSSM's because I believe they add nothing to the wider market. For the older ones, anything with a rebated rim or a belt has found a better replacement... IMHO.

Cartridges We Can Live Without...

FairChase

Badboymelvin

FairChase

Scott Slough

FairChase

CTDolan

CTDolan

FairChase

glh

Jay Kelley

JimP

FairChase

Velo Dog

FairChase

tarbe

FairChase

Lomadelray

Velo Dog

375 Ruger Fan

FairChase

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