Death of Zimbabwe’s Best-Loved Lion Ignites Debate on Sport Hunting

Nyati · Jul 29, 2015

It´s hard to communicate with the anti´s, as they discuss on an emotional level, where anybody can have different values. But, when you counter with logic, giving them the facts, they will just disregard those.

It´s just a loss of time.

Vevew · Jul 29, 2015

Wheels said:
Almost doesn't look like the same lion.

That's because it is not the same lion. Here's what the lion looked like a month before it was killed.
Link: Cecil the lion's final photograph

gi jane said:
I wonder how many folks are Vegans at birth?

I think only a small fraction of those who oppose trophy hunting are vegans. A 2008 poll in the U.S. found that only 3.2% of adults follow a vegetarian diet and 0.5% identifying as vegans (wiki). What does vegetarianism even have to do with this topic?

There are people who are fine with hunting for food, but oppose trophy hunting. Listen to these YouTube channel hosts talk about it:
LINK.

The distinction between hunting and trophy hunting is very important. Why don't the trophy hunters just donate the money and let someone else do the necessary population management? Because they want to be the one who pulls the trigger and kills the animal. And the hunter doesn't eat the lion or make clothes from it out of necessity; the end product is merely an ornament - a head hanging on a wall. This is the mindset that anti-trophy-hunters do not understand.

Sure, it's just a moral/emotional issue.

spike.t · Jul 29, 2015

lbgsafaris said:
I went to bed last night thinking what is going on in the world. Why do people who does not understand hunters go out to condemn them who does hunt.

I fell a sleep and woke up this morning doing what I do every morning. First swich on the kettle for a cup of coffee. Then I took my usual morning shower, got dressed and sat on my bed and said a short prayer, asking THE LORD to show me what is in store for me for the day.
I then oppened my Bible to the book of Romans 14.
I read the entire part, but what struck me was the following

Romans 14:2-3 , “One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.”

I then closed my Bible and said my prayer for the day. After that I fixed myself a cup of coffee and thought about what I have read.

I could clearly hear a voice saying, "Tell this to everyone to hear, although only a few will listen "

Guys please remember. I am only the messanger, so don't shoot the messanger if you don't like the message.

Bossie i am not religious but WOW is all i can say to that............kinda neat it came up and you read it now...............

siml · Jul 29, 2015

Bossie.... :A Big Hello:

JGRaider · Jul 29, 2015

lbgsafaris said:
I went to bed last night thinking what is going on in the world. Why do people who does not understand hunters go out to condemn them who does hunt.

I fell a sleep and woke up this morning doing what I do every morning. First swich on the kettle for a cup of coffee. Then I took my usual morning shower, got dressed and sat on my bed and said a short prayer, asking THE LORD to show me what is in store for me for the day.
I then oppened my Bible to the book of Romans 14.
I read the entire part, but what struck me was the following

Romans 14:2-3 , “One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.”

I then closed my Bible and said my prayer for the day. After that I fixed myself a cup of coffee and thought about what I have read.

I could clearly hear a voice saying, "Tell this to everyone to hear, although only a few will listen "

Guys please remember. I am only the messanger, so don't shoot the messanger if you don't like the message.

A hearty Amen from the back row sir, and thank you for posting this gem. I listen, and strive to be the best I can be.....I still fail. I'm very thankful for God's mercy and grace.

Like my dad told me growing up....you can't argue with fools, as they'll beat you with experience every time. What really is hard for me to understand tough, is that here in the USA, we murder millions of innocent, unborn babies every year and think not a thing of it, but get stirred up over a poached animal. This will never make sense to me.

ScottG · Jul 29, 2015

You kill a puppy and they want to kill you. You go down to the clinic and have an abortion you are within your
rights. We have let polical correctness and outrage rule. Politicians need to grow a back bone and take a stand. It is so easy to sign some petition online, but to get out and vote is a whole different story.

brushmore · Jul 29, 2015

lbgsafaris said:
I then oppened my Bible to the book of Romans 14.
I read the entire part, but what struck me was the following

Romans 14:2-3 , “One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.”

I read the same exact passage yesterday too but I didn't get it at the time. I've learned a lot from this site but this is a first on this subject!

Gemsbok Gangsta · Jul 29, 2015

If it was on the up and up no problems.if no permits etc probably big problems. Pretty cut and dried

Vevew · Jul 29, 2015

JGRaider said:
What really is hard for me to understand tough, is that here in the USA, we murder millions of innocent, unborn babies every year and think not a thing of it, but get stirred up over a poached animal. This will never make sense to me.

I like how you inserted the words "murder" and "innocent" there.
Firstly, an unborn baby is not a person, and therefore it can't be a murder. Secondly, the poached animal too was innocent, but also belonged to a threatened species, and was a tourist attraction and part of a research project.

slad68 · Jul 29, 2015

Vevew Sir.

What part of Threatened and Protcted do you not understand.

Lions are nowhere on a Threatened list only classified as Protected.

If you see an unborn baby not being a person you are once again ignorant. But I also read this morning that its not my place
to Judge anyone, there will be a day for that as well.

But in the meantime please keep to facts if you want to participate with people who has more knowlage and experience in the field than those who post BS on facebook and youtube.

IdaRam · Jul 29, 2015

"An unborn baby is not a person..."
Do I correctly understand your position to be that hunting and killing a wild animal is wrong, but killing an unborn fetus is not? I get that impression because you seem to take issue with the words "murder" and "innocent".
Just trying to get a clear picture of the moral compass that guides you.

Big5 · Jul 29, 2015

Vevew said:
. . . . an unborn baby is not a person, and therefore it can't be a murder.

In my view that statement falls below the edge of decency and says much about who and what you really are.

PHOENIX PHIL · Jul 29, 2015

Vevew said:
Firstly, an unborn baby is not a person, and therefore it can't be a murder.

Really? Do tell, when does a baby become a person in your expert well determined opinion?

JohannS · Jul 29, 2015

Just goes to show you should make sure with who you go hunt with in Africa. Lots of farm owners and PH's are only in it to make money. You dont want to be in a world of trouble like this dentist is.

sestoppelman · Jul 29, 2015

Vevew said:
I like how you inserted the words "murder" and "innocent" there.
Firstly, an unborn baby is not a person, and therefore it can't be a murder. Secondly, the poached animal too was innocent, but also belonged to a threatened species, and was a tourist attraction and part of a research project.

Who the heck are you to say that with authority? Have you been following the huge story how Planned Parenthood has been selling human BABY parts on the open market?!!! Honestly! I have seen pictures of the parts they are selling after the abortions, and let me tell you something buddy boy, the parts are from a person, a human being!! Don't give us any of that liberal pro abortion crap here!! It may be legal but that doesn't make it right or defensible!

Back to topic. The hunter is going to be crucified and has gone into hiding. He may not be any angel and now stories are coming up how he shot a bear illegally once etc.. This guy will be lucky if he can avoid jail somewhere.

Hank2211 · Jul 29, 2015

PHOENIX PHIL said:
Really? Do tell, when does a baby become a person in your expert well determined opinion?

This is an area where many - if not all - of us will have strong views one way or the other (mine are aligned with Mr. Mostert's, for what it's worth).

BUT I'd strongly suggest we restrict ourselves to African hunting issues on this site. Let's not rise to Vevew's bait.

Thanks

Big5 · Jul 29, 2015

sestoppelman said:
Back to topic. The hunter is going to crucified and has gone into hiding. He may not be any angel and now stories are coming up how he shot a bear illegally once etc.. This guy will be lucky if he can avoid jail somewhere.

And all this BEFORE the facts are in and the investigation complete. Yep, the anti's have already charged and successfully convicted him in the 'high court of emotion'.

Nyati · Jul 29, 2015

Vevew said:
Firstly, an unborn baby is not a person, and therefore it can't be a murder .

Vevew said:
Sure, it's just a moral/emotional issue.

I know where my moral values stand, and will not waste my time with the likes of Vevew.

Vevew · Jul 29, 2015

lbgsafaris said:
Vevew Sir.

What part of Threatened and Protcted do you not understand.

Lions are nowhere on a Threatened list only classified as Protected.

I got the information from Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion

Is this information wrong?

lbgsafaris said:
If you see an unborn baby not being a person you are once again ignorant.

Different countries have different laws. Perhaps I'm wrong about the U.S' laws. A quick Google search didn't bring up anything too concrete about the issue, but here's an article from the UK.
This is only from a legal standpoint. That's why I said killing an unborn baby can't technically be a murder (in some countries).

This is getting off-topic.

IdaRam said:
"An unborn baby is not a person..."
Do I correctly understand your position to be that hunting and killing a wild animal is wrong, but killing an unborn fetus is not? I get that impression because you seem to take issue with the words "murder" and "innocent".
Just trying to get a clear picture of the moral compass that guides you.

A slight correction: Hunting and killing a threatened species for fun and/or for a trophy (not for food, not for self-defense, not for any necessity) is wrong. I'm fine with population management. I've said this at least 4 times in this thread already. The distinction between hunting and trophy hunting is important.

Sure, killing an unborn fetus is okay, if it's done early enough and there is a good reason for it. If a fetus is early in its development, it can't feel any pain. My view on ethical killing boils down to this: Try to minimize suffering. I'm sure religious people have different views.
My moral compass is not built around a 2000 year old religious text.

Rob404 · Jul 29, 2015

The local news has also reported of a Sexual Harassment suit against said Dentist by an Ex Employee, I'd say his dental career is about over in Minnesota

Death of Zimbabwe’s Best-Loved Lion Ignites Debate on Sport Hunting

Nyati

Vevew

spike.t

siml

JGRaider

ScottG

brushmore

Gemsbok Gangsta

Vevew

slad68

IdaRam

Big5

PHOENIX PHIL

JohannS

sestoppelman

Hank2211

Big5

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Vevew

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