Introduction Double Rifle Recommendations?

Rifleman · May 10, 2015

Now, to be quite honest, before I joined this forum I had only vague knowledge of the existence of double rifles. Since then, if there's one this I learned, it's that they are expensive. I see their value for dg, but I'm in no rush to hunt dg. However, I do want to start saving for one. Do you have any recommendations for double rifles new or used that go for under 5,000 USD. Preferably, significantly less than that, but I could pay up to that mark without too much crying

Also, If you know where I can find them online in the US, that would be great (gunbroker, etc) My local stores definitely don't carry any.
-Chase

Rifleman · May 10, 2015

Or, If someone could help me with the process of taking out a second mortgage and subsequently declaring bankruptcy, that would be helpful as well.

cal pappas · May 10, 2015

Check to my website <calpappas.com> for some nice double pics.
For 5K in a late production double, don't expect much. Most are junk--poor balance, laser engraved, poor wood to metal fit, low carbon steel that will rust easily, etc.
For your ball park figure I'd recommend a .500 black powder express made in the 1890s. Fine craftsmanship, history, accuracy, quality, and enough power to drop a cape buff or a moose or a grizzly. If you go that route, I have all the reloading data you need.
Cal

AkMike · May 10, 2015

For hunting in your area why not start simply like with a Biakal 30-06? Some trigger work and maybe some stock re shaping will be needed but you'll be into it less than a grand.

Gunbroker, GunsInternational, and GunAuction are good places to look on the web.

Edit to add: Cal and I posted at the same time but he's got as great suggestion.

Rifleman · May 10, 2015

To cover all options, how much would you say I would have to increase my budget to get an acceptable quality, reliable rifle? +3,000? +5,000? I suppose it is possible to pay more, it will just take more time.

cal pappas · May 10, 2015

To get a good quality double 8-10K for a used Heym, Krieghoff, Merkel, or Chapuis. These are not English quality by any stretch of the imagination, but you will get a working double that will shoot well. For the same increase your choices of an English bpe widen considerably.
Cal

Rifleman · May 10, 2015

cal pappas said:
To get a good quality double 8-10K for a used Heym, Krieghoff, Merkel, or Chapuis. These are not English quality by any stretch of the imagination, but you will get a working double that will shoot well. For the same increase your choices of an English bpe widen considerably.
Cal

One more question and I'll stop pestering you. Simply put, what caliber? For mostly DG uses, what would you choose?

cal pappas · May 10, 2015

No worries, ask away.
Caliber is a .450-400 3". It is common and has enough power. Get into larger calibers, such as a .500, and the price goes up. You can buy factory ammo for the .450-400 or the brass and bullets and reload. I have all the data needed for nearly any double rifle caliber.
Cheers,
Cal
PS. My .450-400 was built in 1920 and has taken leopard, lion, hippo, croc, cape buff, water buff, caribou, moose, and more plains game than I can count. An absolute all around caliber with mild recoil.

Rifleman · May 10, 2015

cal pappas said:
No worries, ask away.
Caliber is a .450-400 3". It is common and has enough power. Get into larger calibers, such as a .500, and the price goes up. You can buy factory ammo for the .450-400 or the brass and bullets and reload. I have all the data needed for nearly any double rifle caliber.
Cheers,
Cal
PS. My .450-400 was built in 1920 and has taken leopard, lion, hippo, croc, cape buff, water buff, caribou, moose, and more plains game than I can count. An absolute all around caliber with mild recoil.

So, is the .450-400 3" the same as .400 Jefferey NE? (I think I heard that before, but I could just be making it up). How does this compare to the .470 NE? A large portion of what I see for sale is .470
On a completely different note, where did you go for water buffalo?

PHOENIX PHIL · May 10, 2015

Since no one has broached the somewhat delicate top of Sabatti rifles, I'll go ahead and do so. You should know that I have NO experience with doubles save for knowing the dealers at the shows frown when I starting drooling over their display pieces. Lean heavily on the experience of people like Mike and Cal here who have the knowledge.

Sooner or later you're going to come across Sabatti. Rather than going through the whole bloody story, I will simply say if you feel tempted to buy one because you're getting "a great buy", research the specific rifle thoroughly. Sabatti had a bout of terrible quality when their rifles first came out a few years ago. I think that has now been resolved. However, I would still be hesitant to buy one.

cal pappas · May 10, 2015

Water buffalo in three hunts in Australia, one with a .450-400 and several with a .600.
The .450-400 is the .400 Jeffery.
The .470 is a big game rifle, the .400 is all around use.
Phoenix is half right. Listen to me, but ignore Mike. LOL
You may want to look at my new book, the Double Rifle Primer as it is directed towards those new to doubles.
I also write a column in the African Hunter magazine where I answer double questions.
Sorry I have not replied immediately but I've been shooting a .500 and an 8-bore this afternoon.
cheers,
Cal

Rifleman · May 10, 2015

No problem, it's good you practice what you preach. I looked at your site and also found your youtube channel, and you definitely have a lot of experience. Very knowledgeable. Thanks for all the assistance!

cal pappas · May 10, 2015

Please don't be shy about emailing if you have any questions. If you see a used double you want, email me the link and I will evaluate it for you.
Good shooting,
Cal

AkMike · May 10, 2015

cal pappas said:
Phoenix is half right. Listen to me, but ignore Mike. LOL

Keep it up and I'll tell them the tale of your cousin's cow cape buff.. You know,, Shootaway!

Rifleman · May 10, 2015

AkMike said:
Keep it up and I'll tell them the tale of your cousin's cow cape buff.. You know,, Shootaway!

That's one we gotta hear!

cal pappas · May 10, 2015

So we're bringing his to AH?
Cal

AkMike · May 10, 2015

Hey he's your kinfolk..

AkMike · May 10, 2015

Rifleman said:
That's one we gotta hear!

Nah, not if Cal behaves himself.

TDBall · May 10, 2015

Rifleman,

If you aren't in a hurry, you should (might?) be able to find a decent rifle in the $8-9,000 range. Check Cabela's Gun Room pretty often as well as gunbroker. You can find a Merkel in that range once in a while. It's a matter of keeping on keeping on. It does seem the prices are creeping up all the time though. I let a Merkel get away that I might have been able to get for around $7,600. I later found a nicer Merkel .470 NE on gunbroker for just a bit more.

I have a friend who bought a Krieghoff .470 NE with a set of shotgun barrels for around $10k, which was a real good deal.

I happened on a good bit of brass and cast bullets so I can shoot fairly inexpensively.

Red Leg · May 11, 2015

I do not believe that you can find a trustworthy double for much under 8k. For that number you can find a Krieghoff, Blaser S2, or Merkel in excellent shape. Most double rifle "bargains" - i.e. the old English or German SxS for 3 or 4k - turn out to be money pits with barrel or action issues.

Introduction Double Rifle Recommendations?

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