Big Bore Addiction Group

You guys should have seen the silly grin he was wearing most of the time here.
The big bore rifles were down loaded to a tolerable level. The 4 bore with a full boogie load will recoil up to a 45 degree level as you're taking a couple of steps backwards. But that's with a 2200 grn conical not the 'little' round ball that's 1300 grn or so.

This year there were about 6 H&H Royals that came out of the woodwork. A beautiful Rigby as well as many old line brands that many have never heard of, I brought 2 Alex Henry 577/500 3 1/8" and a Turner 577/500 #2, a 577 Express, a 500 express from the late 1860's to early 1870's , 3 450 NE's and a few more as shown in pics 3 and 4. Velodogs 458 Heym is the one on the far right of pic 4.
The 577 double barreled pistol is called a Howdah. It was a last resort for when a tiger climbed up on the elephant after the hunters in India.

A small tailgate party with brats and burgers kept us gathered close to the fun.

Many were impressed that Matt and his friend Dennis managed to wander up just for the shoot.
I'd like to say thanks to them for coming up, as well as Velodog for time spent in his 'man cave' afterwards before they had to catch the big bird home.

Here's a video of Cal Pappas shooting his 4 bore DR with full boogie loads. Keep in mind that Cal's 6' 3" and no slouch when it comes to shooting.

matt85 said:

just got back from the double rifle shoot in Alaska and boy what a hoot that was! first, I want to thank AkMike for inviting me and carting me, Velo Dog, and my friend Dennis around. id also like to thank every one who generously let me shoot their rifles!

I had a chance to shoot some outstanding double and single rifles in a wide variety of interesting chambering's. to name a few that I had a chance to shoot: 577/500 BPE, 577 BPE, 458 WM, 450 NE, 500 NE, 600 NE, 12 bore, 10 bore, 8 bore, and 4 bore. i did a TON of shooting and im sure my shoulder will hate me for the next couple of days but i loved every minute of it!

as promised here are some pictures of some of the guns at the shoot:

577 BPE and 500 BPE


4 bore shot shells and round ball cartridges along with some original 600 NE cartridges


some double rifles!


more double rifles


more double rifles


BIG guns!


double pistol!


more BIG doubles


and of course more rifles


big cartridges to feed those big rifles!





and of course lunch!


-matt

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That is some SERIOUS cash on the table!! LOVE the under lever rifles! The pattern has always been a favorite of mine.

By the way, Matt, nice work with the 600 NE. You seem to handle the heavy hitters well, very well (much better than most). How do I know? Automatic safety...no flinch. Most guys (or many, anyway), when they expect the "boom" but don't get one, they flinch, wildly (something never noticed when the rifle does go "bang", except when looking at the group, of course). You didn't, though. Good work.

And to whoever made such a treasure trove of gunmaking art available, to you I salute.

AkMike said:

The big bore rifles were down loaded to a tolerable level. The 4 bore with a full boogie load will recoil up to a 45 degree level as you're taking a couple of steps backwards. But that's with a 2200 grn conical not the 'little' round ball that's 1300 grn or so.

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this is the only thing about the shoot that disappointed me. i was looking forward to full house loads in the 8 and 4 bore guns. i believe he said even the 600 NE was loaded down by about 5-10 grains.

however, i can understand why he loaded them down. i was watching people shoot his rifles and noticed a reoccurring theme, no one was stepping out of the covered shooting area to shoot. this meant that every person who shot the 600 NE nearly smacked the barrels into the roof under recoil!

-matt

CTDolan said:

By the way, Matt, nice work with the 600 NE. You seem to handle the heavy hitters well, very well (much better than most). How do I know? Automatic safety...no flinch. Most guys (or many, anyway), when they expect the "boom" but don't get one, they flinch, wildly (something never noticed when the rifle does go "bang", except when looking at the group, of course). You didn't, though. Good work.

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thank you, i try very hard to keep flinching under control. i admit i still flinch from time to time and can be my own worst enemy at the range. but i do my best to not think about the recoil and focus on the target. in that video that is actually the second time i fired the 600 NE and the second time that automatic safety got me. the first time it got me i admit i flinched pretty good . but by the second shot with the 600 NE i knew what to expect of the recoil and the flinch was gone. now those automatic safeties seem to get me every time... im not a fan.

-matt

AkMike said:

I brought 2 Alex Henry 577/500 3 1/8" and a Turner 577/500 #2, a 577 Express, a 500 express from the late 1860's to early 1870's , 3 450 NE's and a few more as shown in pics 3 and 4. Velodogs 458 Heym is the one on the far right of pic 4.

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out of all the doubles there i think i liked yours and Velo Dogs the most, the only thing you were missing was a 500 NE. i easily shot the best with your 450 NE 3.25" conversion gun and the 577/500 you had me shoot first (cant remember which one it was). Velo Dog's 458 WM double was easily one of the most comfortable smokeless doubles to shoot at the event, it just seemed to fit me perfectly.

while i do find it a bit strange to chamber a double in 458 WM. i completely agree with Velo Dog's belief that it just works too well to fix. the old saying "if it aint broke, dont fix it" comes to mind.

-matt

I don't know where it is that I will cross the line for recoil but I will say it is definitely somewhere well south of a full load 4 bore!!!

I don't know if you shot the Alex Henry 577/500 first or the T Turner #2 first. They're both great little rifles.
I will bet dollars to donuts that the 600 doesn't have a auto safety. NO dangerous game rifle has them. I bet you thumbed it somehow.

You did flinch a bit when that 4 bore single shooter failed to ignite. Not much though.

Royal27 said:

I don't know where it is that I will cross the line for recoil but I will say it is definitely somewhere well south of a full load 4 bore!!!

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Those big bore guns were made back in the days of wooden ships and iron men. But PH's back then must have been made of a cobalt alloy.

AkMike said:

I will bet dollars to donuts that the 600 doesn't have a auto safety. NO dangerous game rifle has them. I bet you thumbed it somehow.

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actually quite a few DG rifles have the auto safety feature, Blaser and Kriegoff made extensive use of them. while im sure i didnt thumb the safety, its possible the safety was already on when the gun was handed to me and i just didnt notice. would have to ask Cal if that gun has an auto-safety.

i dont remember the 4 bore single shooter failing to go off? i know i fired 3 shots from it and they were pretty light loads with recoil even lighter then the 4 bore double. maybe the lack of sleep wiped the memory of the failure. i do remember my friend punching himself in the nose with his thumb on the first shot with the 4 bore single (had a good chuckle at his expense).

-matt

Hmmmm, I thought it was you that found a dead primer with the 4 singler of Rob's. Dennis maybe?

Newer DR's might have the auto safety from the factory but most have been disconnected afterwards. Can you imagine needing that shot badly and quickly then finding it was on? Ouch.

AkMike said:

Can you imagine needing that shot badly and quickly then finding it was on? Ouch.

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I agree with you 100%, auto safeties have no place in DG hunting!

-matt

From Taylor:

It's a simple case of the gunmaker in London (or Birmingham, or Leige, or wherever) being fond of refinement of mechanism, but unaware of the practicality in use. Driven birds? Fine. Enraged elephant? Not quite.

None of mine are automatic. The Sauer 450 was but no more.

The question is, were they at one time? Given the ease (and practicality) of conversion, some may have been (unless you've owned since new).

Talk about shittin a brick. A pissed off buff,elephant, lion (fill in your dg of choice) is bearing down on u with the intent of a little facial re-arrangements, you shoulder your rifle, pick up the front bead, squeeeeeze the trigger, and nothin!!!!! That would make for a very very bad day.

CTDolan said:

The question is, were they at one time? Given the ease (and practicality) of conversion, some may have been (unless you've owned since new).

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Most of these are English rifles and as far as I know none were set up with automatics if they are in DG calibers. Even if they were it's simple to de-activate it. I wouldn't go out in the bushes with automatics.

My double is automatic but that safety will be disconnected before hunting DG.

As for 4 bores, F.C.Selous stated that shooting them affected his shooting for all future....he cursed himself for ever using them.

Watching Cals full power shot I happen to agree...

AkMike said:

Most of these are English rifles and as far as I know none were set up with automatics if they are in DG calibers. Even if they were it's simple to de-activate it. I wouldn't go out in the bushes with automatics.

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1.
Mike, thanks for the ride to & from the shoot, I definitely owe you.

2.
Matt, thanks for flying up and bringing your friend Dennis along as well, everyone enjoyed meeting you guys.
And, I agree with others here that you really can take a lot of recoil.
My shoulder is showing some fine color and very tender to the touch but, I only fired a dozen or 14 shots from my .458 and a couple more from Mike's .450 NE (the one built on a JP Sauer action).

3.
Mike, I'm with you - I've never seen a London built or Birmingham built large bore double (or large bore single shot) with an automatic safety.
I just cannot imagine a .600 by any maker, old or new, with an automatic safety, that seems altogether quite unlikely for this caliber.
Also, not sure if it is the one you are thinking of or not but, I noticed that Cal experienced a dud in one of his cartridges.
However, I did not walk over there to see exactly what caliber he was shooting at that stage.

Cheers,
Paul (V. Dog)