New USA requirements in addition to the form 4457

Frostbit said:

The Executive action that gave this teeth was signed March 8th 2013 ............

Click to expand...

I think we found your problem guys!

BARACK OBAMA

The White House, March 8, 2013.

I have read this over. (1) it appears that this is the UN Small Arms treaty that Obama signed and but the Senate has not ratified, but is enforcing anyway. (2) in order to comply the owner will either have to obtain and EIN from the IRS and file for the exemption yourself or use an agent. (3) it looks like you will need exemption for Guns, Scope, Rangefinders, Binoculars.

If it was me, with ammo, I would use the manufacturers packaging and bring back the empty brass. And hopefully your box of ammo has pictures of animals, as I would be concerned about any caliber that might also be a military round, .308 comes to mind. Or safer just buy your ammo there.

This is just not a trip to Africa, its driving to Canada or Mexico too.

Jim thanks for the information. I'll call Tampa CBP next week and see about coming down there with my ammo to get an ITN. Geez, and I was making it easier by using the outfitter's rifle.

wesheltonj said:

...........
This is just not a trip to Africa, its driving to Canada or Mexico too.

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Going into the US is the only country we do not require an expert permit. Although we do need the US permit.

The UN Small Arms treaty is at the centre of all this and at least the Canadian Government sited some objection to some of the more insane stipulations. Dissimilar to the above notedly in the White House.

Been busy with work all week and just got to check up AH and see this crap. .
I'm going back to work. More executive action by the emperor and his cronies. Makes me sick.

Frostbit said:

Guys, I leave in four days. I'd love to chat but I really don't have time. Here's a cut and paste from another forum, where I spend far too much time already.

OK folks I'm a bit worn out but here's your update and fix.

You need an ITN Number to depart and return. Initially the Customs and Border Protections folks were friendly and clueless about this procedure. I awoke the Dragon though and got calls from three Offices today Anchorage, Seattle and Houston. They are now aware of the problem and didn't have a solution until 1300 today.

I was called by the Chief Customs Officer in Anchorage politely asking me to return to the Port with my firearms, 4457's, passport, and itinerary.

They inputted the data into their C&BP system and gave me my ITN Number right then. That's the number you need. Here's the potential problem. They gave me that number hand written on a yellow sticky note. They had no capacity to print it on official letterhead.

That number is needed in three places now. You may need to produce it at departure for C&BP officer (or you may not). It depends on whether the ticking agent is up to speed on this.

You will need to produce it for TSA when you drop off your gun case. Problem is TSA does not have any means to verify the veracity of the number and as I stated mine is on a yellow sticky.

Lastly, you will definitely need that ITN number for C&BP on your return.

My understanding from speaking with Steve Turner is he can help you get the number as well but you will need an IEN from the IRS for that to occur. My understanding is that you have to declare yourself as a sole Proprietor to get it because the IRS system does not have capacity for individuals to get the number.

Since I had no clue how long that would take I opted to go with the C&BP option.

Lastly I asked them about the poor sucker that lives in small town USA without a C&BP office. The answer was unsavory.

You have to obtain this ITN no less than 8 hours before your departure. If you use the C&BP route as I did you have to go in person with the times I outlined above. The suggestion was an itinerary with an over night before international departure to allow greater than 8 hours to get your ITN or a separate trip sometime before your actual trip.

The Chief was sympathetic, helpful, and genuinely appreciative for my help in bringing this matter to light.

I love Alaska!!

On a side note, Representative Don Youngs office has been briefed by me and called me multiple times and had me document this fiasco in text for them. The Deputy Director was not very pleased with the inter-agency runaround she has received and vowed to press the issue and affect some change.

I recommend the rest of you press your Representatives and Senators to also press for change.


Cheers
Jim

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Jim. Have a great time!!!

Just got off the phone with Customs in Tucson. Heading over in a few months with a buddy. They say they haven't heard a word about needing an ITN number. Sounded ridiculous to them. Said they would check on it.

PHOENIX PHIL said:

I think you should forget about emails gents, they'll just be one more in the stack. Be a bigger but polite PITA to them and call. You may not be successful, but unless I'm getting smoke blown up my rear end which is entirely possible, calling seems to have been more effective than the emails I sent.

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+1

I was an intern in my US congressman's DC office one summer during college. (Way before the email days) My main job was opening a duffel bag full of mail every day and separating the letters into 6-8 piles of mail. Each pile dealt with a major subject at the time. Every pile had a form letter in response. We would print out the letter thanking the constituent for their input, put the letter into a signing machine, then send it out with the congressman's' felt tipped signed signature on the letter.

The only thing I did of substance for the constituent was keep a tally of which side of the issue they were on.

The only people that got individual treatment were the ones that were connected or/ had some relationship with the congressman or / had an oddball request like a son that had been arrested in Mexico for possession during summer break.

Interns weren't important enough to talk to constituents on the phone. Only real staffers deal with people that call!

What I am saying is you will probably get a 19 year old kid sending you a canned response to a written request.




I went through a similar situation to this last year with my senators and representative regarding Zim/Tan ivory issue. I called/ sent emails/ wrote letters to all three. The only satisfactory responses came from telephone calls.

Three months after my initial letters, I got a letter from one of my senators saying he would look into it and get back to me. I still haven't heard from him and since he is no longer a senator..................

Ok, so a few points here.
1. !@$@#%$^^&%#$#Q$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. This is impossible to do on your own, I've tried for several days.
3. Thank God I'm a SSI client and Bob THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DOING THIS FOR US!!!!!
4. ActionBob, thanks for bringing this to our attention, I'd been up shit creek if you'd not said anything.
5. I wrote a very unhappy email to mt Senator. I'm sure it wont do any good but we'll see what happens.
6. will be calling SSI Monday morning to see what they need from me, I'm probably driving them nuts at this point.

Hmmm......so let me see if I've got this straight.
1.) our attorney general allows firearms (illegally) to go into Mexico, to make a point.
2.) said attorney general looses track of said firearms....
3.) firearms show up back here in the states, and are used to kill one of our border patrol agents
4.) Public outcry against illegal acts by A.G. are "paid for" by an underling, who falls on his sword.
5.) President (who thinks he is emperor), decides that best way to keep illegal AK-47s off the street (and keep said A.G.), is to hassle legitimate sportsmen hunting abroad using bolt action hunting rifles.
6.) Nobody in congress seems to see the hypocracy or have a problem with this.

AMERICA!.......WHAT A COUNTRY!

Oh, almost forgot............said President keeps repeating his mantra: "We don't want to take your hunting rifles."

Yeah...................right!

Biddleman said:

Thanks for the info Jim. Have a great time!!!

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Thanks!! I'm sure we will. Spent some final range time today. I'm minute of clay bird at 30 yards with the double offhand at 100% and Joyce is less than 1 MOA at 50 yards (Leopard blind distance) off a camp chair with a 2 x 4 rest. I pity the Mozambique Leopards.

Cheers
Jim (and Joyce)

I agree with all of your points Gizmo, especially #1!!!!

Wheels said:

+1


What I am saying is you will probably get a 19 year old kid sending you a canned response to a written request.




.

Click to expand...

Phone calls Boys, phone calls. Followed up with emails to provided accounts. Never use the website complaint pathway.

Ya know, I've never had to take blood pressure meds before but after this I may. I just about had a stroke I was so pissed trying to do this on my own. AES and the IRS kept sending me back to each other with a minimum hour long hold to speak to some idiot that didn't know his/her ass from a hole in the ground. Geez this country is going to hell in a hand basket and unfortunatly we're the rats stuck on the sinking ship.

Frostbit said:

Guys, I leave in four days. I'd love to chat but I really don't have time. Here's a cut and paste from another forum, where I spend far too much time already.

OK folks I'm a bit worn out but here's your update and fix.

You need an ITN Number to depart and return. Initially the Customs and Border Protections folks were friendly and clueless about this procedure. I awoke the Dragon though and got calls from three Offices today Anchorage, Seattle and Houston. They are now aware of the problem and didn't have a solution until 1300 today.

I was called by the Chief Customs Officer in Anchorage politely asking me to return to the Port with my firearms, 4457's, passport, and itinerary.

They inputted the data into their C&BP system and gave me my ITN Number right then. That's the number you need. Here's the potential problem. They gave me that number hand written on a yellow sticky note. They had no capacity to print it on official letterhead.

That number is needed in three places now. You may need to produce it at departure for C&BP officer (or you may not). It depends on whether the ticking agent is up to speed on this.

You will need to produce it for TSA when you drop off your gun case. Problem is TSA does not have any means to verify the veracity of the number and as I stated mine is on a yellow sticky.

Lastly, you will definitely need that ITN number for C&BP on your return.

My understanding from speaking with Steve Turner is he can help you get the number as well but you will need an IEN from the IRS for that to occur. My understanding is that you have to declare yourself as a sole Proprietor to get it because the IRS system does not have capacity for individuals to get the number.

Since I had no clue how long that would take I opted to go with the C&BP option.

Lastly I asked them about the poor sucker that lives in small town USA without a C&BP office. The answer was unsavory.

You have to obtain this ITN no less than 8 hours before your departure. If you use the C&BP route as I did you have to go in person with the times I outlined above. The suggestion was an itinerary with an over night before international departure to allow greater than 8 hours to get your ITN or a separate trip sometime before your actual trip.

The Chief was sympathetic, helpful, and genuinely appreciative for my help in bringing this matter to light.

I love Alaska!!

On a side note, Representative Don Youngs office has been briefed by me and called me multiple times and had me document this fiasco in text for them. The Deputy Director was not very pleased with the inter-agency runaround she has received and vowed to press the issue and affect some change.

I recommend the rest of you press your Representatives and Senators to also press for change.


Cheers
Jim

Click to expand...

Jim,

Thank you for posting this information! I will be heading to the Anchorage C&BP office next week to see if I too can get an ITN. Thank you again and safe travels.

Regards,

Mike

huntermn15 said:

Jim,

Thank you for posting this information! I will be heading to the Anchorage C&BP office next week to see if I too can get an ITN. Thank you again and safe travels.

Regards,

Mike

Click to expand...

Mike,

My pleasure. Be sure to ask for Chief Fernandez or someone in her unit. It's important to speak with the "export unit". There are different units in C&BP and they have differing capabilities. She is friendly and very helpful.

Cheers
Jim

https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...international-travel-for-hunters-and-shooters

Looks like the plight of the international hunter has finally been picked up by someone at NRA-ILA. Hopefully this is the beginning of some answers and maybe.....just maybe a policy change. I'm not holding my breath. One thing is for certain however, we need to keep up the pressure. I plan to call my elected reps on Monday.

sandman0921 said:

https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...international-travel-for-hunters-and-shooters

Looks like the plight of the international hunter has finally been picked up by someone at NRA-ILA. Hopefully this is the beginning of some answers and maybe.....just maybe a policy change. I'm not holding my breath. One thing is for certain however, we need to keep up the pressure. I plan to call my elected reps on Monday.

Click to expand...

In what should be a relief to all who are traveling abroad with their rifles for a hunting trip, from the link sandman posted:

"Fortunately for travelers who are unaware of these requirements or unable to use the AES, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) has,for the moment, implemented a stopgap plan under which Customs officers at airports can manually enter identifying information about the traveler and the firearm. While this may prevent travel plans from being ruined, it also raises questions about how long the information will be kept and how it might be used. It is unclear how long this alternative will be available. It is also unclear how the new rules may be enforced in non-airport situations--for example, hunters who drive to Canada for the upcoming spring bear season."

The part in red falls in line with what I'm getting from a CBP supervisor at Sky Harbor airport here in Phoenix. He called me late yesterday after an initial phone call with him earlier in the week. Basically he explained that he can do just that, the part in red. He had done some research and indeed at least some parts of the gov't realize this system which is intended to prevent illegal arms trafficking had an undue impact on traveling hunters. So until the process is fixed, CBP has the ability to help you through it. Now whether or not your local CBP officer is aware of this is another question.

My guess is that sometime in the future the AESDirect website will be changed to allow individuals like ourselves to file for the 3 guns or less / 1000lbs of ammo or less exemption and get the ITN number. Likely using our SSN or some other number. Passport number would be a good one to use since you'll obviously need it.

My question would be, area all US Custom offices going to be able to issue a ITN number to a hunter when asked? It appears that one of the members I believe it is Frostbit here has been able to obtain one from his local US Customs agent. I'll give my local agent a call when he gets back into the office sometime next week to see if he knows anything about it. Huntermn15 if you can find out if the local offices can do this and post it back it will help a lot of us out.

I am not worried about myself since I can use Robert's office at SSI but I have two friends that are not using him and will need to find out for them since we are leaving in less than 2 months.

I still cannot wrap my head around the logistics of this:

I am checking my rifles in a relatively small airport in Omaha Ne. If I have an ITN number is there going to be a CBP agent there to do their thing, or do I need to recheck in Dulles and hope everything works out and I'm not stranded with rifles in that friendly place?

Also, with 15 hour layover in OR TAMBO with the required "temp import permit" for SA, am I going to run afoul of the regs, (those being that you cannot "export" to two countries on any one trip) will anyone know, or what?

I fly in three weeks.