A little food for thought - Pricing on African Hunting Safaris

Since I am new to all of this I know I am a bit naive but I kind of assumed that outfitters made most of the profits on trophy fees? This seems like to me a place where margins can vary widely depending upon various factors. So if I see a place with very good prices and a decent reputation I assume that the profit margin for that outfitter is much better. So I could see someone deciding to take a loss on the daily rate to be competitive if they can easily make up for it somewhere else.

Is that anywhere close to reality?

I cant do it that way. With the current trend in breeding colour variants all over the EC even the prices I pay for the common species have escalated dramaticly. Many game farms have jumped on the colour variant wagon and have converted areas normally inhabited by common species into M&M breeding camps. Indirectly hunters will be paying for this trend to continue. Cant speak for Limpopo or the other provinces.
 
Everyone is welcome to an opinion. Some are more informed than others and that is what we are here to share.

......
Yes if you dont do your homework I guess you could book and ele hunt for sept but the ele are only there in nov.Then maybe the price is not so good.But with the right question and research that should not happen........ That is not as much about price but a thief in a business not the same thing that this topic is about in my eyes.

The "too good to be true price" is exactly how the crooks manage to get the hooks in people. Be that a larger Elephant, lower price, etc.

Asking the right questions requires a lot of experience and knowledge.


AS far as I know we have no outfitters on the ah site like that.
.............
Luckily you have not encountered them. Others have.
There have been instances, as I have noted where I have found them out and banned them. NO claim to screening the site, I just do it on a voluntary basis for my fellow hunters.
There are crooks showing up at shows every year.

As for the exchange rate if you read what must people say on this rates are subject to change.I know this going in but has never come in to play.


.....
I have a feeling that evens out from year to year.
Your feeling is not based on the facts. Have a look at the graphs provided. The change is not favourable over time. (RSA side)


Maybe I will try that when I bid some jobs...................

If you start bidding international jobs you had better address exchange in your bidding. Otherwise you will find your bottom line destroyed.
I think that little disclaimer in everybody's contracts are for the eventuality when the exchange actually does go so far wrong that it would be devastating. Otherwise, most of the Outfitters have usually managed the risk within a couple of points.
 
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Billc 5 short comments

-my business model does not allow for it.
-larger properties are exactly that, and cost more.
-my time and experience comes at a price exactly the same as a good surgeon.
-EC and Limpopo and or Moz are not comparable.
-An exchange rate is an exchange rate experience have taught me to navigate around it.

My very best always.
Ps. not raining here either. :)

Jaco I get all your points and the one that it comes down to for what a hunt cost is.my time and experience comes at a price In the end it is what the outfitter wants to make on that hunt at that time.That is the plain and simple truth.Each knows his cost and has some idea what they want to stick in there pocket at the end.

My main problem is when some try to tell others the are wrong for doing it cheaper then them.YOu may want a bmw other may just be fine driving a toyota.One can charge less because he is happy living the toyota lifestyle.With that said it does not mean one hunt will be better then the other.I can get to the place I want driving either.The hunter can make either hunt good if he goes in with the right way of thinking.
 
Just dont keep saying you cant have a great hunt at a cheaper price because your business model wont allow it.


Billc......I agree that in some way......I am sure you can have a great hunt a chaper price but it would be good to know why and how...??
I can say from my experience where I work.....

My boss is a faithful SCI supporter and every single year he send hunting donations since 12 years ago to differents chapters of the USA SCI.....hunters buy this hunts in the auctions or fundraisers and thus get cheap hunts, sometimes quarter of the price and let me tell you that those hunters are treated in the same way that any other who paiys in full, so that people can say, I got a very good cheap hunt and it was great, but there is a reazon for that........in this case as I said my boss is a faithful SCI supporter, he likes to do that and doesnt matter if he have to put money from his pocket to keep on doing it and is a good way to keep the ball running.......

This is a case of cheaps hunts I know, I dont know others.........
 
Bill, I get what you are saying unfortunately though after 15 full seasons and marketing in this industry I have seen it way to often, hence my constant and continual referral to hunts in those price ranges.

Granted, one can not tar everyone with the same brush, but I assume that kosher individuals will distance themselves from my valid and proven comments, and understand the point I am trying to get across.

In all honesty hunters can book where they want, 2 facts remain.
While the most expensive might not be the best, we can put money on it that the cheapest aren't either.

What does happen over time is that an established reputable outfitter realizes the value of his product and prices it within and in line with similar outfitters marketing similar products (mostly comparable quality, ie, trophy quality, size of land, dangerous game occurring and or not as well as experience level of its guides.)

When we take the above into consideration it most definitely brings about a difference in quality of experience from a clients perspective, and some are more than willing to pay for that.

My best always
 
Chris,

I'd love to hear your answer to the same question. Are you saying that if the exchange rate goes to 5/1 you won't change pricing?

Perhaps I'm not understanding your point here about the deposit. To me as a client, a hunt deposit means I'm reserving time to hunt, not locking in rates two years in advance. That's why the exchange rate language is in the contract and discussed. If I want to lock in rates I would sign a futures contract that specifically states what the safari charge will be. There is risk both ways, is there not?

Answer to first question....Maybe - maybe not... It would all depend on what I need to pay for animals and cover my costs at the time... Answer to 2nd question: What I can say is that I've not changed pricing after signing a contract for the past 11 years...

At 11/1 - $250 = ZAR2,750. At 5/1 you'll need $550 to cover the same amount...

Best,

Chris
 
This is very interesting indeed. I have spoken with a few PH's and outfitters about price structure. Each outfit is different in many ways. It comes down ultimately to me as a client to say "yes" I agree to your prices or "no" I will look elsewhere for a hunt that fits my needs and pocketbook. Can great hunts be obtained at lower rates? Yes they can. There are also scammers booking at low rates. The client must be on the look out and do their homework before committing their money to any hunt. I have heard of some of the big operators being crooks as well. They charge crazy fees and the hunt does not produce. Integrity goes a long way. With the internet an outfitter would be a fool to scam a client. They can and will get smeared publicly for the whole world to see. I for one would not hold back on anyone who takes my money and does not produce what was promised.
Kind Regards to all from the frozen tundra of ND,
Dave
 
While the most expensive might not be the best, we can put money on it that the cheapest aren't either.

See jaco I never said my hunt was better then any other.Just said with some work there is deals always out there.Maybe in 5 years both guys will be more but that is something I cant control.


I am sure both guys knew the eland both my son and I took were worth more then they charged me.The fact is they charged me less by there own choice not be cause I beat them down or even asked.I can say my whole life I have been treated well by others.I like to think it is because thats how I treat people with my business.Each job I do I could make more but like to stay busy and drive my toyota truck not a bmw.Each there own and neither of us are wrong.
 
Billc......I agree that in some way......I am sure you can have a great hunt a chaper price but it would be good to know why and how...??
I can say from my experience where I work.....

My boss is a faithful SCI supporter and every single year he send hunting donations since 12 years ago to differents chapters of the USA SCI.....hunters buy this hunts in the auctions or fundraisers and thus get cheap hunts, sometimes quarter of the price and let me tell you that those hunters are treated in the same way that any other who paiys in full, so that people can say, I got a very good cheap hunt and it was great, but there is a reazon for that........in this case as I said my boss is a faithful SCI supporter, he likes to do that and doesnt matter if he have to put money from his pocket to keep on doing it and is a good way to keep the ball running.......

This is a case of cheaps hunts I know, I dont know others.........


Rocket hard to answer your question.I feel I had the same quality of hunt as if I would have paid double with someone else.I feel I recieve great lodging and food plus great animals.I would say between my two hunts last year I save near 12,000 dollars over what some would have charge me for the same thing.Everyone like to say after there hunt they made new friends and there is a bond formed.I can say I made true friends that feel more like family to me.Would I have paid more for what I got from pieter and loodt hell yes it was worth more.I will go out of my way to help either of them as much as I can.
 
drive my toyota truck not a bmw.
Off topic but huge respect for driving a yota!
IMG_0984.jpg
 
Lastly, as a client I also look at the personality of the outfitter/ph. I may spend a few extra dollars with a certain firm because my personality and the outfitter/ph's are similar. Jaco may need to charge a little more than others on a leopard hunt in Moz, but I think that a hunt with him would be crazy fun. Hunting with Pieter and John at Paw Print would be nothing short of a lot of laughs as well. I will pay whatever my pocket book allows to hunt not with certain outfits but with great individuals. I must thank AH for showing me some of these individuals and their companies to me!
 
WEll warbird you must be ready to pay for my hunt then so we can hunt together.LOL Just think of that fun
 
Billc, I now you did not say that yours was the best, I am just holding firm to what I have always said, most of the time you get what you pay for.

This is very true in cars as well, as for the BMW vs Toyota analogy, I don't really get it, a cruiser is a $55 000 - $70 000 truck in South Africa, after Norway we are the most expensive country on vehicles in the world.
We also have the highest telecommunication costs on the planet hence my lack of understanding how someone can sell $250 a day hunts.

The fact that you say that if one charges more it is because One decides how much One wants to put in ones pocket....?????This does show a slight lack of comprehension for our industry and what it takes to run a company on a large track of land, and 3 other Mozambique concession, this is a combined acreage in excess of 3 million acres running at around $400k+ a year, this excludes marketing.

It's about paying what needs to be paid employing who needs to be employed with Job security for them and their families, as well as building a successful company, we also need to remember for us it's not a hobby or a part time job it's a living, that supports our families.


I still can not comprehend how an established outfitter can charge such rates it seems unbelievable, and once again IMO my time and effort is worth more than that.
image.jpg

Here's mine, btw an fj is an incredible vehicle my wife as one.
As for charity..... It begins at home.
:)
My best always
 
Jaco

I sure wish we could get that version of Cruiser here in the States!

Different business models require different pricing structures to support them.

Anyone who strays too far from reality on their pricing, given what they are offering, will not be in business too long (without adjustments, that is).

If someone has been in business for a number of years (say at least 5), they have either figured out how to make a workable profit at their pricing level or they have a behind-the-scenes benefactor! ;)
 
well it at least you have good taste in trucks jaco.

The business your in was by choice.Your company decide to get that big and get that much area.Your cost is yours by choice and yes you must pay for it.Not sure why you dont get what I mean by what goes in your pocket it goes hand and hand on what you said.Your time is worth what you think it is.That ends up being what goes in your pocket.It goes to the point that you could do a cheaper hunt but you feel your time is worth what you charge.You never said you could not do a chepaer hunt you say you wont.That again is all good in my eyes as I am not saying you need to be cheaper.

The point is we all made need something different when it comes down to money to earn a living.I know people who live on 20,000 a year also know some who make millions a year.Is one a better person then the other because he makes more.As crazy as it sounds some of the people who I know who make less sure seem happy then some who make millions

The toyota and bmw thing is more or less based on what we pay here in the states.
 
Pieter,

Thanks for your explanation but it doesn't answer my question..

The exchange rate when you started in this business (2011 if I understand things right) was around 7/1 (as per Brickburn's graph... Since then - the SA Rand has steadily been losing value against the US$ and right now it is at 11/1. I appreciate that... But I also know that prior to 2011 there were some severe exchange rate fluctuations as can not only been seen on the graph Brickburn posted but those who were in the business before 2005 will know exactly how quickly things can change for the worst...

My question remains:

How are you going to handle things if the ZAR/US$ changes back to 7/1 before your next clients arrive?


The easy way to handle this is to lock in prices through a financial services company. Buy/Sell currencies at a level equivalent to the amount of forex you have prebooked. Check closely, most stock brokers aren't very experienced on this stuff. It adds a cost to doing business but is manageable in a volatile market.

All the best.
 
Worked for a pretty well off Gentleman many years ago, got to spend sometime with him on a private level when we would talk about hunting.
He use to say that he has a simple way of dealing with people giving him advice on how to run his operation and were to invest etc. Every time they told him how to go about it he would tell them that if they are so clever why are they working for a salary or that he would gladly take their advice, on condition that they had more money in the bank than he did:D

There are too many variables in every Outfitters operation to have a set price or to say this one is cheap and this one is expensive. You want to fly first class, you are going to pay, you dont mind flying coach (I have too) then its up to you to pick the best seat to suite you.
Specials can sometimes be done on animals, Giraffe,Black Wildebees seem to have come down in price in our area, but it cant be done every year.

Jaco very nice Cruiser, wish we could get them in Europe. The Hilux here costs more than in SA, it comes from the factory in SA too, but with seat warmers:D
 
On a side note and this is only the way I see it. If you are paying 2000$+ for a Kudu in Limpopo and 1200$ for a EC Kudu on avarage, you are paying per inch. Call a spade a spade. You will expect a better sized trophy in Limpopo (53"+) than the one in the EC (47"+) anyone that wants a 60" bull knows they dont come cheap either.
I have seen too many "budget" packages were there are substandard trophies being taken. I also know some Outfitters who refuse to pay the landowner a little more even if his property has better quality animals.
Whatever it costs to hunt SA is still cheap compared to European hunting. I have to rent my hunting area if I want one, prices and number of game and species can vary, so can the size of the property, 17HA to 1700HA. Renting a property of 200HA in the South of Sweden can easily be more expensive than a Buff hunt in SA. A very good Fallow Deer will set you back more than 7 days hunting fees in SA, around 2500$:mad:
 

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