458 Lott Vs 500/416 Nitro Express what one is best for a first big bore rifle

Before you spend all that money on a custom gun go out and shoot some comparable gun calibers. Honestly after all the hunting I do a 375 H&H is plenty most days on dangerous game. The last time I was in Africa, a local magazine was even questioning the outstanding penetration of the 375 H&H...wondering if it was too much....lol
 
they come standard with removable muzzle breaks so i can get use to the rifle with the break then for safari remove the break
 
Haven't read all the posts, but if choosing, I wouldn't be considering the chamberings first, but the type of rifle. The .458 Lott would be a bolt action and the .500/416 either a DR or single. I would choose on that basis whether I had the need or desire for a rifle with the attributes (and expense) of a double rifle, or a bolt action.

But if widening the field, to a FIRST bigger bore rifle, I would choose either a .375 H&H, or a .400, .416, or .404. If you get access to a larger rifle, and shoot it a fair amount to get a feel for the recoil, then perhaps bigger bore rifles, such as the .450s, .458 to .500's. A good rifle such as a 9.3x62 or .375 H&H is a good fit in any rifle rack.
 
BTW why a .500/416 as listed? It is probably one of the least popular cartridges chambered into a DR. A .450, .470, .400 or even a .375 Flanged would all be more popular choices.
 
Harrison E said:
i was planning on both rifles being a Kilimanjaro rifle with a wooden stock, mercury recoil reducer in the stock and a muzzle break
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well it wont be any of the rimmed calibres as kilimanjaro only make b/a rifles as far as i know, so that cuts the list down a bit..and what are the 2 cals you think you would like? :)
 
Matt and Velo, as I mentioned in my post it depends on the stock design. I use an Accurate Innovations stock with aluminum bedding, made specifically for that rifle to my specifications (includes 8oz mercury recoil reducer), and as a result the recoil is very manageable. As far as the lighter weight goes, that is the idea. I don't want to lug a 12 lbs rifle 5+ miles a day. Now, would I shoot 100 rounds prone on a weekend? No. However, shooting it off-hand for DG, as I intend to do in 20 days, it is perfect.

Harrison, as others have said, forget the muzzle break. Also, Kilimanjaro rifles use GMA actions and to really do justice to that action I'd go with something like a 450 Rigby or 505 Gibbs rather than Lott. Look at their Doctari models. At ~20K a rifle and a year plus wait I'd do a lot of research first though. The DSC and SCI conventions are only a few months away and you will get a chance to talk to a number of vendors. You can talk to Rigby, Heym, Klimanjaro etc., etc. at that time as they are all at that price point or less (Rigby).

Also, as others have said the 375H&H is a good starter rifle and you can use it for any game in North America as well as Africa including DG with "perfect placement".
 
nothing wrong with the 500/416 NE cartridge. hes likely considering a Blaser S2 chambered for the round which while an odd looking gun is very serviceable for any African safari.

-matt
 
Kilimanjaro rifles to my knowledge does not make double rifles so we can assume he was not talking about them for the 500/416 NE.

while some companies offer doubles chambered in 500/416 NE the most common rifle chambered for the cartridge is the Blaser S2.

-matt
 
Until you've owned quite a few big bore rifles, I don't know that I'd be plunking down $20K on a Kilimanjaro. Once you've hunted Cape Buff and other large game a few times, you'll be better able to determine your wants, in caliber, rifle weight, double or magazine rifle, etc. One good thing about a 375 is that you'll never "outgrow" it...a 375 accompanies many hunters on every African hunt they do, regardless of their quarry and what other rifle they choose to bring. Email me at jbieber52@aol.com if you'd like to discuss options.
 
NitroX said:
BTW why a .500/416 as listed? It is probably one of the least popular cartridges chambered into a DR. A .450, .470, .400 or even a .375 Flanged would all be more popular choices.
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Exactly! Save on the ammo and shoot more.
 
.458 Lott would be best of the two. If you handload you can load it down to 47/70 levels to start with. If you don't you can get 458WM. You can work your way up to full power Lott loads. I'll prolly hear about this but I ain't to silly about the 375 H&H, I have a few but............they don't excite me. If I wanna be able shoot a ways the 416 Rigbys get the nod. But for a stopper the Lott's would go. Make sure whatever you get fits you, that's the most important part of mitigating recoil. I would rethink the brake......nasty things. I shoot my Winchester Lott a bunch with cast gas checks, my daughter started shooting it when she was about 14.
 
My PH on a recent hunt has been using the .458 Lott since 1999. He said the recoil was horrible until he bought a Limbsaver to replace the existing recoil pad, now no issues. His tracker will not go with him to hunt DG unless he brings the .458, nicknamed 'Firstborn" ;).
 
If you are not used with Big Bore :
1 - .375H&H or 9.3x64 Brenneke or 450-400 ... maybe 404 Jeffery , maybe ..
2 - .416RM/ Rigby/Ruger : very good value ( .458WM If you like it .. I don't)
3 - A step ..
4 - .458Lott - .470 NE
5 - Forget the others ... except for "fun" ...Lol
 
the 458 Lott and the 470 NE are in two different recoil families. the 458 Lott is in the same family as the 500 NE 3" and the 505 Gibbs.

my general recoil understanding list:

1. 375 H&H, 375 Ruger, 9.3x64, and 450/400 NE 3".
2. 416 RM, 416 Ruger, 416 Rigby, and 404 Jeffery.
3. 450 NE 3.25", 470 NE, and 458 WM. (these could fall under #2)
4. 458 Lott, 500 NE 3", and 505 Gibbs
5. 505 Gibbs (hot) and 500 Jeffery
6. 577 NE 3" (this could fall under #5)

many factors can change recoil such as weight and stock design. so one gun in 458 Lott could be easier to shoot then another in 416 Rigby. velocity also seems to make a difference, my 500/416 NE double is gentler on my shoulder then my 375 H&H which i assume is because 2300fps generates a slower felt recoil impulse then 2500fps.

-matt
 
matt85 said:
many factors can change recoil such as weight and stock design
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I agree, that's the reason why I put the .458Lott on the same level than the .470NE, double are heavy ... but their stock have a "vintage" design ...
For instance and for me , the Winch 70 SE stock is a very good stock, it suit me well ... but that's just my opinion ...
You must" try" the rifle, the cal. is not the only criteria .
.458Lott and upper are "reserved" for real "confirmed hunter" ou PH. ..
 
matt85 said:
the 458 Lott and the 470 NE are in two different recoil families. the 458 Lott is in the same family as the 500 NE 3" and the 505 Gibbs.

my general recoil understanding list:

1. 375 H&H, 375 Ruger, 9.3x64, and 450/400 NE 3".
2. 416 RM, 416 Ruger, 416 Rigby, and 404 Jeffery.
3. 450 NE 3.25", 470 NE, and 458 WM. (these could fall under #2)
4. 458 Lott, 500 NE 3", and 505 Gibbs
5. 505 Gibbs (hot) and 500 Jeffery
6. 577 NE 3" (this could fall under #5)

many factors can change recoil such as weight and stock design. so one gun in 458 Lott could be easier to shoot then another in 416 Rigby. velocity also seems to make a difference, my 500/416 NE double is gentler on my shoulder then my 375 H&H which i assume is because 2300fps generates a slower felt recoil impulse then 2500fps.

-matt
Click to expand...

Agreed. I once had a 378 Weatherby that beat the crap out of me (purple shoulder, gun headache and all). Granted, I did tend to shoot it from the bench (300 grains at near 2,900 fps), but it was brutal. I also had a 460 Weatherby that, by comparison, felt tame. Granted, it was heavier but I'd much rather do some range time with the 460 than the 378. Eventually I got rid of each but the 378 went first. As for why it kicked so damn hard, in my opinion a lot had to do with recoil velocity (also likely why I didn't care for the 300 Weatherby). The 458 Win Mag has never bothered me in the least (nor the 375 H&H...of course). The various 416's are alright, too, but the Lott is in another league. It's not super nasty but it does push back with noticeably more authority than the others.
 
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