416 Rigby Hang Fire

[TOBY458]

I just started loading for my newly acquired Sako Brown Bear in 416 Rigby. I have been handloading for 35 years or so, and have never ran into the following problem.
I began with a starting load of 92.5 grains of RL22, with a Swift 400 gr A Frame. This is the starting load for this powder listed in the Swift manual. I am using Hornady cases and Tula large rifle magnum primers. This load is listed at 2300 fps, which is where I had planned to stop, if the accuracy was acceptable. I don't feel the need for more velocity than that for the distances I plan to shoot DG.
Now the weird part. I fired four rounds with this recipe, and noticed I was hearing the firing pin drop a split second before the rifle discharged. I was shooting iron sights at 25 yards, so I have no idea how it affected the accuracy, but I know this is a problem.
I have read where people sometimes use Dacron filler to fill up the unused case space in this rather large cartridge. I had hoped to avoid that.
My question is, if I went to a bulkier, slower burning powder like RL25, which is also listed in the Swift manual, would that help this issue? The starting load for it is 97.7 grains for 2301 FPS.
Also, I wonder if these Tula primers could be to blame? Would a CCI 250 cure the problem? The Hornady factory loads shoot fine, and they also seem to have plenty of leftover space in the case. So I know they aren't using a filler.
Any feedback would be welcomed.


Thanks!

 

[Dirtdart]

Toby, get rid of those Tula primers. I prefer Federal 215's but the CCI's should be fine.

 

[TOBY458]

Toby, get rid of those Tula primers. I prefer Federal 215's but the CCI's should be fine.

That's kind of the direction I was headed in my mind. I believe @tarbe also had some hang fires with the Tula primers as well. When I bought them it was all I could find. This was back during the ammo shortage a few years ago. They seem to work fine in my 375 H&H, but maybe they just aren't hot enough for the Rigby.

 

[Rum Runner]

This may help. I worked up a load for my .416 Rigby that worked extremely well for me.

Velocity Issue

I'm shooting a CZ 550, with a 25" barrel. I use Federal #215M primers. Humm, Vhit has a starting load for the 450 gr that is greater than the max load at 400 gr. I knew they were being too conservative with the 400 gr bullet mix! And Barnes lists the 400 gr max at 105.5 gr of n560...

www.africahunting.com

 

[Luvthunt]

Well a crude cal,c says that at 92.5 gr you are around 93% of case cap.First thing I would do is load some rounds with 215 or 250s. And go from there. I load IMR 4350 to a lesser case cap with no issues.

 

[BnC 04]

First thing I would look at is swapping out the primers and going with Fed 215's.

 

[TOBY458]

From all the above posts, it definitely seems like the primer could be the issue. I will swap to Fed 215 or CCI 250 and report back. Thanks for the help!

 

[SnowLeopard]

I bought some Tula primers in 2016 and loaded up 80 rounds of .303 British. The first four shots had a delay from firing pin strike to ignition. The longest delay was close to a second. I stopped attempting to fire them and switched to a different batch loaded with Federal primers. They fired just fine with instant ignition. I'll never use Tula primers again.

 

[Mike Van Horn]

With that much powder l would only use the fed 215. To many problems with the others

 

[limpopo]

Yep, been there. Fed 215M's and you good to go. I save those Russian primers (Tula or Wolf) for 308 and smaller where they work fine for practice ammo.

 

[sierraone]

Not familiar with Tula primers, so I guess they are an off brand Russian made?

 

[fourfive8]

Yep been down that road before with large capacity cases. Many, like the 416 Rigby, were designed in a different era around a completely different powder- cordite and likely a hotter albeit corrosive primer. Probably don't need a filler but certainly a hot primer and easy to ignite powder that also has a load density that isn't too low. Several things have to work right for that type of formula in that type cartridge.

I'd lean toward an objective muzzle velocity of around 2350 and work up toward that with powders like H4350, H4831 or H4831SC. Then you have two hedges against high pressure spikes- slightly reduced loads/vels and temperature insensitive powders. And for sure try something like either a Federal or CCI Mag primer. If you have CCI #34 primers, that are specifically designed for military style auto loaders, they may also work very well. The CCI #34 has become my go-to primer for large magnum applications.

Good luck and keep us informed

 

[sestoppelman]

I use TULA primers in 5.56 for my AR's and have gotten the best accuracy using them and no hangfires. But if having trouble as described I would look towards the Fed or Win mag primers. CCI a third choice.

 

[matt85]

Tula Primers arent terrible, just not suited for this task. The Rigby cartridge needs an extremely hot primer to be 100% reliable.

The Federal 215 primer (not the match ones) has been my ideal for large capacity cartridges.

-matt

 

[Rule 303]

Sounds like it is a primer problem only. I use Rem 91/2 Large Rifle primers. No trouble setting off 36 grains of Trail boss under a 370grain projectile, or 68grains of AR2206H under a 445 grain projectile. I normally use 96 grains of AR2209 (H4350) under a 400 grain projectile in my 416 Rigby.

Avoid AR2213SC/H4831/H4831SC in the 416 RIgby unless you like getting belted. Felt recoil is sharper and harder than with AR2209.

 

[TOBY458]

Tula Primers arent terrible, just not suited for this task. The Rigby cartridge needs an extremely hot primer to be 100% reliable.

The Federal 215 primer (not the match ones) has been my ideal for large capacity cartridges.

-matt

Yes. I've used them in 375 H&H and 416 Rem with perfect results. My only problem now is, no one seems to have any Fed 215 on their shelves. I'm hoping to find some locally in the shops around my house.

 

[fourfive8]

If you don’t mind eating some hazmat... Bruno Shooters Supply in Phoenix shows both Fed Mag and CCI #34s in stock.

And I’d still recommend trying H 4831 or
H 4831SC or H 4350. A 5 or 6 grain charge difference between powders only accounts for a difference of about 3 ft lbs of recoil energy- hardly if any noticeable difference in “feel”, IMO

 

[TOBY458]

If you don’t mind eating some hazmat... Bruno Shooters Supply in Phoenix shows both Fed Mag and CCI #34s in stock.

And I’d still recommend trying H 4831 or
H 4831SC or H 4350. A 5 or 6 grain charge difference between powders only accounts for a difference of about 3 ft lbs of recoil energy- hardly if any noticeable difference in “feel”, IMO

Thanks for the info. I'll check them out!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Thanks for the info. I'll check them out!

They also have H4831 in stock. When I had a 416 Rigby, that was the go to powder for hand loaders. Since you're already paying for the HAZMAT anyway, might as well get the powder too.

 

[TOBY458]

They also have H4831 in stock. When I had a 416 Rigby, that was the go to powder for hand loaders. Since you're already paying for the HAZMAT anyway, might as well get the powder too.

Yea they hit you with a $37 hazmat fee and $22 Shipping for one 1000 pack of primers!