Joseph Bourne Maker London SXS Black Powder

[touverson]

Hello, I purchased a Very nice shotgun today what is marked Joseph Bourne Maker London. The shotgun has heavy engraving all over it with birds, dogs and scroll work. I have not been able to find any information on it at all. The elderly man that I purchased the weapon from stated that he purchased it in the early fifties. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. photos can be supplied is needed. Thanks
Tom

 

[AkMike]

Just because it's marked Bourne doesn't mean that he made it. He very easily could have been the retailer. It might not be English even!
Does it have English proof marks?

 

[Red Leg]

Just because it's marked Bourne doesn't mean that he made it. He very easily could have been the retailer. It might not be English even!
Does it have English proof marks?

Agree, the proofs mark will tell the tale. Value will be based upon a lot of things when it comes to SxS's. Is it a sidelock, a boxlock, or a percussion gun; are the barrels still in proof; are the barrels on the face; are the ribs still tight; etc. Joseph Bourne was a Birmingham maker and like many had a store front in London to claim they produced "London" guns. I am The proof marks will tell you whether actually Birmingham or London (both cities produced wonderful guns).

You say it is a black powder gun - cartridge or muzzle loader? If a cartridge gun, it is almost certainly proofed for a moderate 1 1/8 ounce max load and 2 1/2 inch shells. If black powder, then max 800psi loads. I would not use 2 3/4 inch rounds in it and never heavy 1 1/8 - 1 1/4 ounce loads.

Also, Belgian makers often produced copies of English guns though usually of much poorer quality. Richards was often copied and a friend has a "Webly Scott" proofed in Liege rather than a "Webley and Scott" proofed in Birmingham. Bottom line it could be a fabulous gun or a clunker and anywhere in between. Just need to do a bit more dective/evaluation work.

 

[touverson]

Proof Marrks

Myself and three others have looked the gun over for any other marking and have come up with nothing. I dont want to remove the stock or buttplate in fear of scratching the engraving or damageing the burl wood. The gun is muzzle loading black powder.

Agree, the proofs mark will tell the tale. Value will be based upon a lot of things when it comes to SxS's. Is it a sidelock, a boxlock, or a percussion gun; are the barrels still in proof; are the barrels on the face; are the ribs still tight; etc. Joseph Bourne was a Birmingham maker and like many had a store front in London to claim they produced "London" guns. I am The proof marks will tell you whether actually Birmingham or London (both cities produced wonderful guns).

You say it is a black powder gun - cartridge or muzzle loader? If a cartridge gun, it is almost certainly proofed for a moderate 1 1/8 ounce max load and 2 1/2 inch shells. If black powder, then max 800psi loads. I would not use 2 3/4 inch rounds in it and never heavy 1 1/8 - 1 1/4 ounce loads.

Also, Belgian makers often produced copies of English guns though usually of much poorer quality. Richards was often copied and a friend has a "Webly Scott" proofed in Liege rather than a "Webley and Scott" proofed in Birmingham. Bottom line it could be a fabulous gun or a clunker and anywhere in between. Just need to do a bit more dective/evaluation work.

 

[touverson]

The proof marks under the barrels indicate that it is a 12 Ga. The other proof marks are a crown with the Letters CP or GP under the crown which indicate London Proofhouse Definitive Blackpowder proof for shotguns, muzzle loader barrels. The second proof mark is a Crown with the Letter V under the crown and indicated London proof house and view mark. Does this help. If needed I can send a few pics.

 

[James.Grage]

nice looking older BP gun...

 

[rookhawk]

1860s era gun. Nice platinum bits near the nipple. (Can't remember what it's called as I'm a vintage breech loader guy)

I would:

Pay $350 to have the barrels rebrowned. The walls will be measured to make sure they're good before that work is done. Then go shoot some birds with it. If you can give me a serial number I may have the ledger info to determine year of manufacture.

It's of good quality, above average for the era. If the walls are good it's certainly serviceable and has reasonable value. I would not worry about it being fake. Belgian junk wasn't being pawned off during this era yet. Likely made in Birmingham for the trade but that matters little. (Even Hollands were made in Birmingham by WC Scott...little secret for those that think H&H are special....didn't even have their own factory until 1898)

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Very nice shotgun. Congrats.
Witold

 

[paladin100]

Plenty of signs of the screws having been played around with, with ill fitting tools. No surprise on a gun of that era. Have you checked to see if there is a charge in either of the barrels? Apparently not uncommon. As one of the other posters, rookhawk, said, get it stripped down and the barrels checked.
It's a pretty enough gun and you could have years of fun with it. Rebrowned barrels would set it off.