Slugs for Bear

[gatekeeper]

Just another option to consider, I think, would be the new Remington Premier Expander slug made by Barnes, as well as the Remington Copper Solid slug. I have hunted in slug only areas my whole life, and I have used the old Remington Copper Solids, and I can tell you I have shot numerous deer with them and never recovered a slug yet. If the new barnes perform as well, I think that would be something to really take a look at also for your situation. These both are 1oz, or 437gr, @ 1450fps, and being all copper, will have very high weight retention as well as the reduced frontal area between the expanded petals compared to a typical mushroomed lead core. They also will have a slightly higher SD than a lead foster slug, due to being all copper but remaining the same weight, and as such will be longer. They are a sabot design and should give excellent accuracy for a shotgun. Certainly adequate for defense out to 50 yards. The new Accutips are great for deer, but they expand very wide, and I'm not positive penetration would not be limited somewhat due to that. If I had to carry a shotgun for bear protection as you, I believe it would be loaded with Copper Solids. Just my opinion, best of luck to you sir.

 

[Jon Ray]

You could also shoot 3 inch buckshot with hardened shot like Winchester supreme copper jacket buckshot. I am not impressed with foster style slugs.

 

[jeff]

My wife shot a moose this year with a 20 gauge with 15/16 oz Rotweil slugs in a rifled barrel and the performance and penetration seemed exceptional. Great expansion and weight retention.

 

[IvW]

You could also shoot 3 inch buckshot with hardened shot like Winchester supreme copper jacket buckshot. I am not impressed with foster style slugs.

Buckshot of any design lacks penetration because the are round. Slugs perform a lot better.

 

[Paparock94]

Hey has anyone seen or know about the D Dupleks solid steel 12 ga. slugs? They say they came out of Europe. Their Monolit 32 Magnum (12ga magnum loading) all steel solid sounds interesting and was wondering if any have been used in Africa?

 

[Paparock94]

D Dupleks Monolit 32 12 gauge ammo penetration on heavy brush.

 

[Paparock94]

What I wish is that someone would do some real life testing on the Brenneke 12 gauge 3" Crush 656 gr. slugs , Dixie Slugs 12 gauge 3" IXL-DGS (Dangerous Game Slugs) heat-treated 870 grain slugs, Lightfield Commander IDS Plus 3″ 12 ga. 600 grain slug, and the DDupeks Monolit 32 Magnum 12 gauge steel solid slugs as to penetration and wound channels as they are some of the most powerful and deep penetrating slugs according to their claims for use against "dangerous game". Serious slug shooters would LOVE to see a head to head test. I for one would be willing to help with the cost of some of the ammo. Put them through some serious testing and let us see the results! Does anyone have the facility to do such testing?

If anyone is interested Dixie Slugs also has Tri-Ball loadings in 3" and 3 1/2" loaded with three .60 caliber heat treated balls weighing 315.00 grains each. Sort of a super buckshot that shoots tight patters out of fully rifled barrels.

 

[Paparock94]

DDupleks 12 Gauge 3" Monolit 32 Mag.

 

[Eric Anderson]

Here is a prime example of why there are much better projectiles than foster slugs for use on animals larger than a couple hundred pounds:

It shows that the slug only penetrates 12 1/4" of pure gelatin and the disruption isn't all that breathtaking either. I know there are a lot of different slugs out there, brennekes being one of the better, but even the best have an abyssmal sectional density and foster slugs (1 oz) have the sectional density of a sideways teacup. I used to hunt at a camp in Allegany Couonty NY where it was shotgun only and I took a number of deer with both 20 and 12 gauge foster slugs... I can't remember ever having an exit, even on smallish deer. If you HAVE to use a slug, which it sounds like you do... Handloading a solid, hardened slug like those available from dixie, like another post mentioned are probably your best bet. Good luck!

20” barrel? That is barely above legal minimum in the US for a shotgun barrel, unless you want to wait almost a year for a tax stamp.

Like I said earlier, lots of black bear are taken on the coast of NC with 2 3/4 slugs

 

[JakeH]

20” barrel? That is barely above legal minimum in the US for a shotgun barrel, unless you want to wait almost a year for a tax stamp.

Like I said earlier, lots of black bear are taken on the coast of NC with 2 3/4 slugs

There’s black bear where I hunt on the coastal plains of NC. Though I haven’t ran across one yet, whenever I shoot a deer the first thing I do is go back to the truck for my 870 loaded with Federal’s Truball Deep Penetrator. I did have one destroy my ground blind not three hours after I left with my daughter one day though.

 

[ChrisG]

20” barrel? That is barely above legal minimum in the US for a shotgun barrel, unless you want to wait almost a year for a tax stamp.

Like I said earlier, lots of black bear are taken on the coast of NC with 2 3/4 slugs

I don't understand what the barrel length has to do with the effectiveness of a slug? unless you are saying that a longer shotgun barrel would provide more velocity, which is demonstrably false and would only produce less penetration with regard to a soft foster slug. Shotguns gain all of their velocity in the first 12-14" of barrel due to the fast rate of the powder burn and the relatively small powder quantity to bore volume. The only reason shotgun barrels are longer was in an attempt to decrease muzzle pressure which would tend to splay patterns from short guns. It also had the affect of making them swing better for follow through. Even so, the effect has been shown to be minimal. The reason they are using a 20" is because that is usually the longest barrel most defensive style shotguns would have and I would say that 18.5" is far more common. It doesn't change the fact that the shotgun with foster slugs under performs on game when compared to even moderate rifle cartridges like the 7x57, ,280, .30-06 etc. Having shot a number of black bears, I would much rather have a rifle that I know is going to break bone, penetrate straight and exit from almost any angle with a good bullet, all while turning the vital organs into jello. I am not doubting that a 12 gauge slug would do the job, like I said I have killed deer with it. I am just saying that unless you had to use one, a rifle is:

1. More accurate
2. Much easier to shoot due to low recoil
3. Capable of much better penetration
4. Capable of producing traumatic wounds which are more likely to be fatal due to numbers 1-3

Again, this is all regarding cheap foster slugs. Step up to a good Brenneke or similar and the game changes dramatically, but the fact remains that it is a limited range, less accurate and and stiff recoiling piece of equipment that is far more difficult to shoot well and does nothing better than a plain ol' .30-06.

 

[Scrumbag]

Is it still the opinion that Brenneke Black Magic are the best slugs for large angry predators?

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Is it still the opinion that Brenneke Black Magic are the best slugs for large angry predators?

They work really well for black bear . I can attest to that

 

[Albert GRANT]

Standard Brenneke 12ga slug, 350lb black bear at 70yds went thru the front shoulder broke the far leg bone and was just under the skin

 

[Scrumbag]

Thanks for sharing AG!

 

[Foxi]

Growing up in the deep south of Arkansas I used a lot of 00 and OOO buckshot. I have killed some quite large Razorback boars with just a .22LR because that was all I had with me while on my grandfather's farm once when a big boar cut one of my grandfather's cow's belly open with his tusks and started eating her intestines right there while she was still alive. I took great offense at that and opened up on him. I knew the .22 would not penetrate his chest armor plate so I was aiming for his spine. The .22 rifle was scoped so I just kept shooting for his spine trying to hit a disc to hopefully get a sliver of lead to his spinal cord. He was squealing in rage as I was hitting him but finally his back legs went down. The whole time I was walking toward him closing the range. Now I shifted my aim to his neck to sever his necks spinal cord. His front legs went down as he was trying to get to me now. As I walked up to him he was lifting his head and try to use his tusks to drag himself to me. I told him "it's not happening" right before I put a bullet in his brain. That boar should not have killed that cow in front of me as it sealed his fate. I would have prefered to have a larger caliber rifle and I would have dropped him with one shot but I used what I had.
.

Hunter- L.atin is a beautiful language

 

[ChrisG]

I have a mold to cast a 775 grain .732" wadcutter... in front of 32 grains of blue dot. I am pretty sure it will topple anything in North America... they just need to be fired from a rifled barrel.

 

[Paparock94]

Is it still the opinion that Brenneke Black Magic are the best slugs for large angry predators?

In Alaska I believe it is still standard issue to "Game Department" and "police" for bear control.

 

[Paparock94]

The DDupleks all steel ammo has made a showing of late. in the 3" variety, I understand.

 

[Foxi]

I always read all SLUG Threads with great interest.
But what amazes me, is that in gun-liberal America there are huge hunting areas and even states where hunting with rifles is not allowed.Only shotguns with slugs and buckshot.
I can only speculate about the reasons.
But would you have an official explanation for a German hunter where this is totally unusual?
Greetings and thanks
Foxi