IMPORTANT: Immediate Changes to South African Firearm Registration Guidelines for American Hunters

[Bobpuckett]

One is supposed to declare items bought overseas on the form on the plane and that now includes whatever rifles that you already own and have along, at least if you land in NY City! And the CBP site says this also. I got chewed for it in 2014!

Exactly but in 2016 that has changed and I stand corrected as my wife slaps me in the back of the head giving me one heck of an headache we were on delta and landed in Atlanta. and here in the South East that may not matter as all us rednecks down here own guns. LOL

 

[Hogpatrol]

Probably posted elsewhere on this site but for those who travel multiple times abroad or within the U.S., a time saver is the Global Entry/Trusted Traveler program. It negates the paper customs declaration forms and long lines at security and customs. One enters their declarations at POE kiosks and moves on to firearm clearance.

 

[Areaonereal]

I can not find anywhere on the Customs site that a firearm you own and have a 4457 needs to be declared. Three times thru ATL in the last three years and it was never mentioned.

 

[woods1126]

Bob is right. My buddy and I went to the airport this past Monday. We got 3 new 4457's, and we're back in our vehicle in less than 15 minutes. Other than the drive to the airport, and having to get these new ones to Annalise in time for our upcoming hunt on April 10, it was a breeze. Kevin

 

[robertq]

One is supposed to declare items bought overseas on the form on the plane and that now includes whatever rifles that you already own and have along, at least if you land in NY City! And the CBP site says this also. I got chewed for it in 2014!

Did you tell him that's what the 4457 is for ........

 

[daved]

I have just chatted to a client coming over in May . He is a police officer .
He printed the 4457 form off of the website , filled it in at CBP and they signed and stamped it with a 2017 stamp .
The PHASA CEO is going to engage with the government this week or next and discuss with them that the increased difficulty of tourist hunters to bring in firearms is directly affecting a R1 billion Rand hunting industry .

 

[Hogpatrol]

I can not find anywhere on the Customs site that a firearm you own and have a 4457 needs to be declared. Three times thru ATL in the last three years and it was never mentioned.

It doesn't. Your firearms come under the Gun Control Act of 1968, importation of firearms in to the U.S. Your 4457 covers your butt in this regard. It's proof you are not importing firearms, it's in the CBP computer that you had it in your possession in the U.S. Example: you show up at ATL with a firearm you bought out of the country and DON'T have a 4457 on file. Customs duty will be the least of your concern. You can refer to Hans' experience coming to the U.S. with his rifle unannounced and without proper paperwork. He was EXTREMELY fortunate in his situation.

ATF rules for buying a firearm overseas and importation in to the U.S.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/210/~/requirements-for-importing-new-or-antique-firearms/ammunition

 

[JG416]

One of the biggest problem for US Hunters returning (and leaving) with firearms is the inconsistency at the various airports and individual officers. I have had problems every time in New York/New Jersey and California airports, not much at any of the others. In every case I have simply cooperated with whatever they asked for, even when I knew it wasn't necessary. It is very obvious when you go thru airports that are in states with generally antigun/antinunting state governments that it is much more difficult. I know we are theoretically protected by Federal Laws when travelling, but that doesn't help much when the NY/NJ transit authority won't let you board your plane without a second inspection after the Federal authorities have already done theirs. The problem is not that I couldn't have argued and educated them (since I always carry the relevant rules, laws and paperwork) but rather that they can certainly slow you down and guarantee that you won't make your connecting flights. This is similar to the present situation in SA, obviously a new 4457 serves no purpose, but if getting one avoids difficulty it is an easy fix. One tip, I get each item on a separate 4457, again I know this is not required, but after reusing a 4457 that had several guns on it from a previous trip, only one of which I brought on a second trip, and on returning to the US being threatened and harassed about what happened to the other guns for an extended period I find this another easy solution.

 

[sestoppelman]

It doesn't. Your firearms come under the Gun Control Act of 1968, importation of firearms in to the U.S. Your 4457 covers your butt in this regard. It's proof you are not importing firearms, it's in the CBP computer that you had it in your possession in the U.S. Example: you show up at ATL with a firearm you bought out of the country and DON'T have a 4457 on file. Customs duty will be the least of your concern. You can refer to Hans' experience coming to the U.S. with his rifle unannounced and without proper paperwork. He was EXTREMELY fortunate in his situation.

ATF rules for buying a firearm overseas and importation in to the U.S.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/210/~/requirements-for-importing-new-or-antique-firearms/ammunition

It does actually, you fallers just aint lookin in the right place! Under Traveling outside of the US -Temporarily taking a firearm, or ammo abroad for hunting purposes. Down about 9 small paragraphs its states

"UPON RETURNING TO THE US, THE TRAVELER WILL MAKE A REGULAR DECLARATION REGARDING THE PERSONAL EFFECTS AND GOODS THAT THEY ARE CARRYING AND ENSURE THAT THEY DECLARE ANY FIREARMS AND AMMO". Below that is states that the 4457 is all that's needed to re import said guns per ATF as long as "CBP is satisfied that they were previously exported and now being re imported." But that does not absolve the traveler from declaring the guns. It is hard to make sense of some of this, but its there if you look. I didn't make this up!

 

[BRICKBURN]

We have to declare firearms in the same manner when re-entering the country. I expect it is the same in most countries, if not all.

 

[sestoppelman]

Did you tell him that's what the 4457 is for ........

Robert, I had my 4457 in my hand. He told me flat out in his best NY twang, "dont matta, ya gotta put it on the declaration form". I asked where does it say that anywhere? I got told to move along...then of course I got my bags searched, probably for asking too many questions..

 

[robertq]

I had an agent tell me I had some driving record ....... I said what does that mean ...... He said you know don't act stupid...... he keeps me, and went through all my bags ........ IT'S all about the badge...... yes JFK

 

[Hogpatrol]

One of the biggest problem for US Hunters returning (and leaving) with firearms is the inconsistency at the various airports and individual officers. I have had problems every time in New York/New Jersey and California airports, not much at any of the others. In every case I have simply cooperated with whatever they asked for, even when I knew it wasn't necessary. It is very obvious when you go thru airports that are in states with generally antigun/antinunting state governments that it is much more difficult. I know we are theoretically protected by Federal Laws when travelling, but that doesn't help much when the NY/NJ transit authority won't let you board your plane without a second inspection after the Federal authorities have already done theirs. The problem is not that I couldn't have argued and educated them (since I always carry the relevant rules, laws and paperwork) but rather that they can certainly slow you down and guarantee that you won't make your connecting flights. This is similar to the present situation in SA, obviously a new 4457 serves no purpose, but if getting one avoids difficulty it is an easy fix. One tip, I get each item on a separate 4457, again I know this is not required, but after reusing a 4457 that had several guns on it from a previous trip, only one of which I brought on a second trip, and on returning to the US being threatened and harassed about what happened to the other guns for an extended period I find this another easy solution.

Bad juju putting two guns on one 4457. A friend of mine did that and came back through NY. They wanted to know where the other firearm, a handgun he didn't take, was stashed. No amount of explaining helped. After a couple hours delay with a complete body and baggage search, and going up the chain of command, he was "allowed" to continue on his way. Fortunately he had driven to the airport and didn't miss a connection. From this chair, if you want to save yourself a lot of grief, NEVER put more than one item on a 4457 form, especially firearms and scopes. Having said that, except for newbies that don't know about or try to circumvent the shoe spraying in Atlanta, Dulles an Atlanta POE returns have been painless and efficient. Aside from that, I've never declared my firearms upon re-entry, only that I had been around animals and on a farm.

 

[sestoppelman]

It doesn't. Your firearms come under the Gun Control Act of 1968, importation of firearms in to the U.S. Your 4457 covers your butt in this regard. It's proof you are not importing firearms, it's in the CBP computer that you had it in your possession in the U.S. Example: you show up at ATL with a firearm you bought out of the country and DON'T have a 4457 on file. Customs duty will be the least of your concern. You can refer to Hans' experience coming to the U.S. with his rifle unannounced and without proper paperwork. He was EXTREMELY fortunate in his situation.

ATF rules for buying a firearm overseas and importation in to the U.S.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/210/~/requirements-for-importing-new-or-antique-firearms/ammunition

Well, did you see my post and find the relevant place on the CBP site?

 

[Hogpatrol]

Well, did you see my post and find the relevant place on the CBP site?

I read the regs and the requirement to declare. So here you have an ATF rule being enforced by CBP. You're right, you can't make this stuff up. Here's a cut from the last part of that page. I especially like the last sentence.

"To satisfy the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives requirements for the re-importation of a firearm please refer to 27 CFR 478.115(a). The ATF regulations allow for the use of the CF 4457 upon re-importation, and does not require an approved import permit (ATF-6), provided that CBP is satisfied that the firearm was previously exported from the United States and is now being returned.

To establish such proof, a bill of sale, receipt, copy of ATF Form 4473, household effects inventory, packing list, or registration on Customs Forms 4457 or 4455 may be used, if the registration form is completed prior to departure from the U.S. For military personnel, a properly executed Department of Defense Form 12521 signed by either the serviceman's commanding officer or an authorized Customs officer may be used. The acceptability of such proof is within the purview of the Customs officials at the port of entry."

 

[Bob2176]

This has been covered in other threads, but CBP cannot simply delete the date on the form--it is required by US law, specifically by 44 USC 3507.

There are three courses of action, change US law; change SA procedure; or follow SA's rules for bringing firearms in to SA.

My inner stoic leans towards the last as being most likely.

 

[Hutch01]

What about 2018? Are we gonna have to haul rifles to the airport next year to get an updated 4457? Waste of time. Hunters are the safest gun owners and we get treated like criminals. It's such BS!

 

[Hogpatrol]

What about 2018? Are we gonna have to haul rifles to the airport next year to get an updated 4457? Waste of time. Hunters are the safest gun owners and we get treated like criminals. It's such BS!

Refer back to the first post. It contains a link to the new "updated" form. The expiration date is 8/31/19. As long as you go before that date, you'll be good for at least three years.

 

[sierraone]

We are hunting Namibia this year, but flying thru Joberg with an overnite and next day flight to Windhoek we still have to clear SAPS with our firearms, no different than if we were hunting in SA. Wish there were an alternative for transiting thru an overnite.

Within a few months you should have a choice, for Zambia and Namibia. Turkish Airlines non stop from Atlanta to Istanbul then on to the capitols of Zambia or Namibia. This is in the process of happening and hasn't been approved yet to my knowledge. The only negative I know of at this time will be that on Turkish Air, all electronics including cameras have to go in the baggage when coming into the U.S. Only electronics allowed in the cabin are cell phones. For those of you that fly digital heavy, this is a big problem. For me and I am sure some others this is not a big issue, all other things being equal.

 

[rookhawk]

What about 2018? Are we gonna have to haul rifles to the airport next year to get an updated 4457? Waste of time. Hunters are the safest gun owners and we get treated like criminals. It's such BS!

Look at the bright side. The more difficult the travel. The more onerous the regulation. The more complicated the permits. The more complex the pre-authorizations. The more harassment upon entry and exit.....

Demand decreases.

Thus, with decreased demand will reduce the price of safaris for those willing to endure it all.

So the good news is for those that stick it out, you'll get great deals as the whole safari biz circles the drain! :/

I'm not sure if this is a silver lining after all.