Best .300 win mag rifle?

[Dwight Beagle]

Sako 85, CRF, true or not?
I had the same dilemma until i tried.

In true CRF, the general consensus is that when you feed the round in the chamber from the mag, and when round is chambered, the bolt does not need to be locked, in order to extract the same round.
However, the bolt should go horizontally all the way forward and then back. (movement required 2: forwad - backward)

Push feed, in addition to this needs the bolt to be locked down, in order the round or casing to be extracted. It will need addtional hand movement, which is waste of time in some situations. (movement reqired 4: forward - down - up - backward))

CRF is also usually percepted as a bolt with long extractor claw, Mauser type.

For such mauser type CRF, in order to feed the rifle directly from hand, the round must be positioned inside the mag, otherwise pushing bolt directly, may create a damage to long extractor by forced locking in push-lock manner.

Where does that leave us with Sako (85)?
Hmmm,
Yes, indeed, when the round is fed from mag to chamber, in order to to extract the round, the bolt does not need to be locked down, as opposed to standard push feed. Here, sako 85 complies with this requirement, despite having a short, small strange looking extractor claw. For which, before I tried i was certain it is push feed type.

Mauser - long extractor, if that is definition of CFR - Sako (85) - does not have. Here, Sako (85), does not comply.

Is it real CFR?
Well, probably it is.

Is it better, or safer then classic mauser?

On mauser 98 bolt there is safety rear locking lug, plus two front locking lugs, and 90 degrees throw.
The story behind rear third locking lug is that when paul mauser was testing some of the early semi automatic rifle designes, this resulted in accident, and he lost the eye in severe injury.
So after that, absolute focus by P. Mauser in forthcoming designs was absolute safety of the user in rifle handling.
This resulted in m98 bolt, and the third rear locking, lug (as opposed to m96 designe for example)

On sako 85 - there is no safety rear locking lug, but is fitted with three front locking lugs, which make 60 degree bolt operation.

My vote goes to mauser 98 type, to me it looks safer.
90 or 60 degree bolt throw, doesn't mean much to me.

Problem with Mauser is that apparently, mauser 98 type of bolt is more expansive in production, allegedly modern CNC machines can not make all m98 bolt parts, and it takes more man working hours to produce, making higher production costs due to labor.

Sako, obviously made this design, a compromise to have advertised CRF - but without long extractor, which I consider a shortcut in production, as the rifle goes to high end bolt actions on the market.

Zastava? Many virtues, some faults, occasionally.
Some new m70, often do not have free floating barrel. Due to lower quality fit and finish. Who gets out-of-box free float barrel, is lucky one.
I've also seen misaligned drilled scope base holes, on some. And there fore, misaligned scopes as well.
Some new ones need some bolt polishing.

But undoubtedly - CRF, mauser 98 style, 100%

Really, mauser m98 action is the point where zastava really shines. Possibly the cheapest m98 type hunting rifles on the market.
All above mentioned minor issues can easily be sorted out with local gunsmith, or DIY by skilled user.
And Timney trigger to be added.

Then, zastava will really-really shine!
On the other hand, taking Sako 85, out of the box, there is nothing else to be adjusted, polished, replaced... Fit and finish at its maximum.

Excellent post.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

I said Japanese guns are high quality. I don't see were I said they were suspect?. I just don't like them for sentimental / political reasons. And shame on you Dragan for seeking open source intelligence for recommendations and a global collective knowledge on different calibers and different brands there's nothing you can learn from anyone hear anyway.

You said they CAN be high quality. I think most people would get the same impression I did from your post. If that was not what you meant you clarified it. Everything is good.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

Maybe the Sako 85 could be called partial CFR. Chuck Hawks explains it pretty well IMO.

"Nor does the Sako 85 guide a fresh cartridge into the chamber like a controlled feed action. It simply pushes it forward and into the chamber like any push feed action. It is not until about the last 1/4" of forward bolt travel that the Sako's extractor actually gets a firm grip on the case rim. By that time the cartridge is almost all the way into the chamber anyway, so being "controlled" at that late stage is pointless."

 

[lcq]

"90 or 60 degree bolt throw, doesn't mean much to me."

Thanks for reminding me of that. I like 60 degree because I have one rifle with a 90 where the bolt handle almost hits the scope leaving little room for your fingers.

 

[Dragan miloševič]

I really don't see how you can make a choice based on others recommendations. The rifle is for you. You need to handle the ones you are considering and decide which one feels the best. Other things to consider are safety location and type(two position vs three), DBM vs hinged floor plate and push feed vs CRF. Sako advertises its actions as being CRF but they aren't true CRF according to many experts. I have looked at them and they don't look CRF to me.

One of the posters mentioned Zastava. I too think they are a great bang for the buck, especially if you want CRF. Not suggesting you buy one, just saying I like them. He also made a comment to the effect of Japanese firearms being suspect. Baloney. Miroku makes very good quality firearms and in their price range you can't beat a Howa.

I recently handled a browning xbolt stainless stalker and truly loved the gun. Honestly think I'm going with that one.

 

[JGRaider]

The CRF thing is highly overrated IMO. I've been hunting big game since age 11 (1971), and can't say I've ever had a misfeed with any push fed quality rifle I've ever owned.

 

[Viti]

Love the sakos, the A7 would be a good choice. Have a 85 in 308 and 375, an A7 Roughtech in 7mm rem mag and just got a T3x superlight in 300wm. Shot the 300 for the first time yesterday, 23 rounds to run in off the bench. Recoil was fine, I felt it, but cmpletely manageable. I'm very happy with it so far, and with scope and rings, she's a nice 3.2kg, will be a dream to carry.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

The CRF thing is highly overrated IMO. I've been hunting big game since age 11 (1971), and can't say I've ever had a misfeed with any push fed quality rifle I've ever owned.

I agree JG. I read awhile back where a test was run with push feed rifles, chambering them from every position imaginable. They couldn't get them to not feed.

I do prefer CRF though most of my rifles are push feed. Nothing I can quantify though, I don't even know why I like them better, I just do.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Somewhere along the line I remember reading that CRF shines on extraction followed by feeding a new round, specifically when done under stress. The point being that if you short stroke a push feed and fail to properly eject the spent brass the next will try to feed in and you end up with a proper jam.

On a CRF rifle this impossible to do as the next round can't pop up into the face of the bolt with the spent round firmly in place.

I repeat this is what I've read, so don't shoot the messenger!

 

[dchamp]

I see eurooptic is having a really good sale on Tikka T3's right now.

 

[Adam S]

For what this is worth (probably very little), Sakos are a CRF system of sorts as explained well by others above. I've experimented with my 85 and I have to try very hard to get it to malfunction. It feeds at any angle I've held it. The only way I can stop it is if I severely short stroke it, which I feel would be fairly unlikely if someone has practiced an adequate amount with the rifle. I suppose that could possibly happen under stress in a DG situation, but that's really not the role of a .300 anyway. I don't mean any of this to take anything away from true CRF fans, I'd prefer one if I'm ever fortunate enough to go after something dangerous.

 

[35bore]

Somewhere along the line I remember reading that CRF shines on extraction followed by feeding a new round, specifically when done under stress. The point being that if you short stroke a push feed and fail to properly eject the spent brass the next will try to feed in and you end up with a proper jam.

On a CRF rifle this impossible to do as the next round can't pop up into the face of the bolt with the spent round firmly in place.

I repeat this is what I've read, so don't shoot the messenger!

Not shooting the messenger Phil, but I've heard the same statements on this site many times over. "IF" you short stroke any bolt you still have an inoperable firearm, even if it's for just a few seconds until you realize what you've done. I have always felt it is up to the person handling said firearm, "push or CRF", that they should know their gun. If they know their rifle and have trained,there should not be a short stroke at all.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Not shooting the messenger Phil, but I've heard the same statements on this site many times over. "IF" you short stroke any bolt you still have an inoperable firearm, even if it's for just a few seconds until you realize what you've done. I have always felt it is up to the person handling said firearm, "push or CRF", that they should know their gun. If they know their rifle and have trained,there should not be a short stroke at all.

I would not disagree with that. And if you short stroke a CRF rifle and you just push an empty round into the chamber, you're still pretty much up doo do creek.

 

[mark-hunter]

"90 or 60 degree bolt throw, doesn't mean much to me."

Thanks for reminding me of that. I like 60 degree because I have one rifle with a 90 where the bolt handle almost hits the scope leaving little room for your fingers.

Certainly, you have a point!
I remember my grandfathers rifle had classic m98 bolt sytem, and bolt handle was flat, and bent cca 90 degrees down in closed position, paralel to the stock, so when in open position, it was almost horyzontal, and being flat gave plenty of room to low mounted scope.

Obviously much will depend on bolt handle design or type.

 

[sambarhunter]

I have four and they are all ok too...... Sako TRG-S in 300 wm,and a `98 in 300wm,and a Nosler in 300 wm and the best one is my `98 308 Norma Magnum..

 

[ack]

Wow thank you for everybody's input. I currently shoot a browning a bolt 30-06. I would like to give sako a chance, but I know very little of the gun and accuracy. What would you guys pick out of the two, sako a7 or browning xbolt composite ss?

Can't beat Sako..Very fine rifles.

 

[Philip Glass]

Regardless of your choice of gunmaker the .300 is going to be your best bet for Africa. I've had a 30.06 my whole life and done well with it, but it let me down on more than one occasion in Africa. Long shots at tough animals you just need a bit more gun in my experience.
Best of luck and enjoy the planning process!
Philip

 

[Paparock94]

With the new bullets like the Nosler 210 grain AccuBond Long Range Bullet with its ballistic coefficient of 0.730 those that handload can make the .30-06 out perform many traditional .300 Winchester factory loadings.

Double Tap Ammo even sells loaded .300 Win Mag 210gr DT LongRange Bonded ammo turning the .300 Win. Mag into a near laser. See more information here> http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=303_321&product_id=176

It would seem to be ideal for long shots on plains and mountain game of larger size as that .30 caliber 210 grain bullet really flattens out the trajectory and now allows for 2000ft/lbs of energy at 625yds from a .300 Win. Mag.. and stretches out the range and energy of a .30-06 as well. So some may not even want to or feel the need to use a .30 caliber magnum for those that handload (http://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/30-06-springfield/).

 

[sambarhunter]

Five now that I have added a .300 H+H to the stable.

 

[Paparock94]

While I have been a CRF rifle fan for hunting like I wish the Winchester Classic Custom Sharpshooter (and Sharpshooter II) .300 Winchester Magnum was. I can't help but admire an accurate rifle like the Remington Model 700 5-R Series Gen 2 , the Blaser R93 Tactical in .300 Win. Mag., or the Blaser R8 for its flexibility and ease of customization.