Dang German glass

[RolandtheHeadless]

I finally broke down and bought a Swarovski Z3 3-9x riflescope a year or two back. I'd always thought German glass is over-rated, a product of the overpaid German worker. I've long been a fan of the Leupold V-III series, never believed German optics would be noticeably better.

I've been wondering which rifle to mount this scope on, and the other day at twilight (the only real time to compare scopes) I compared the Swaro to the old (30+ years) Leupold Vari-X III 2.5-8x on my favorite rifle, a Ruger M77 in .300 Win Mag. To my annoyance, the Swaro seemed slightly brighter. I carefully cleaned the lens of the Leupold. Same result. It brought a tear to my eye, figuratively speaking, to pry loose that old scope, which has seen the demise of moose, deer, caribou, sheep, and a mountain goat; but I took it off the Ruger and replaced it with the Swaro.

Today I was down at the range sighting in the new scope. I got to a bench and set up, then realized I'd forgotten the spotting scope. Oh, rats! I said to myself, or words to that effect. How was I supposed to see where the bullets were hitting? It isn't usually a problem seeing the holes through the rifle scope at 25 (where I started bore-sighting) and 50 yards. But with this Swaro cranked up to nine power, I could see where my bullets were hitting even at 100 yards. Which I've never been able to do with the Leupold.

I'm still shocked.

Everyone's eyes are different. Optical quality in all makes has improved over the past thirty years, and it would be interesting to find out how the Swaro compares to a current-model Leupold. I plan to do that test later this summer. All manufacturers have improved lens material and coatings over this period. I'm not sure of the source of Leupold's lenses, but I'd bet it's Taiwan. Nothing wrong with Taiwanese glass, I'm just not as sure it's up to the German stuff as I once was. Sometime I should try a Japanese scope to be fair; I've just been stuck on Leupolds. Not any more.

On another note, I tested out a Magnetospeed Ballistic chronograph today, and am quite pleased with it. http://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetlo...nge_Supplies_Equipment_Alpha_G-_-magnetospeed Unlike the sky-screen chronographs, there are no tripods and screens to get aligned with your rifle bore. No false readings because you set up too close to your shooting position. No tripod toppling over in the wind. No embarrassing moments of shooting one of the screen struts in half, or worse, blowing the chrono itself to pieces, as I've heard tell of a few times. (Personally, I've only shot struts in half.) The Magnetospeed works great, showing the velocities of a set of shots and the average velocity of the group and other stuff I haven't figured out yet. The only problem with it is that the strap that attaches the unit to the rifle keeps loosening up on a tapered-barrel gun. Every shot or two you have to re-tighten it. I haven't figured out what to do about that yet, but it's still less trouble than sky-screens. Very simple unit. Should work out great.

So long as I don't shoot it off the barrel of the rifle.

Jim

 

[Clayton]

Like you Jim, I've had Leupold glass on my guns for a lot of years. A few years I decided I had to invest in a spotting scope to use at the range. I was able to check out several brands others used & none were really that good at seeing bullet holes in 200 yard targets. Did some research & went with a big Leica. WOW! Was it expensive? Yes. Is it worth it? Oh Yeah! I should have done this years ago.

 

[Streifengnu]

I enyoy reading about german quality but Swaro is austrian. Leica and Zeiss (No. 1 worldwide in optic quality) are german, but not cheaper.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

Whoops, you are correct about Swaro being Austrian. I knew that. Brain freeze, I guess.

 

[Lee M]

I'm not sure comparing a new (1-2 year old) scope of one brand to a 30 yr old scope of another brand is a fair comparison. I would assume there have been many improvements for all brands over that timeframe. I drove a powder blue Datsun B210 30 years ago... .

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

As I said, my main interest was in improving my scope for that rifle. The thirty-year scope would probably inevitably lose out. I just didn't expect the difference to be that great.

I do have the current (2015) Leupold VX3 2.5-8x, which I plan to test against the Swaro later this summer. It's on a 7mm-08 rifle, though, which will punch smaller holes than the .300. I suppose I should buy another .308 caliber rifle to put it on. Hard to acquire enough gear to do real test-offs.

 

[rookhawk]

I enyoy reading about german quality but Swaro is austrian. Leica and Zeiss (No. 1 worldwide in optic quality) are german, but not cheaper.

Austria, Germany, Hitler thought they were the same thing too, honest mistake!

:-0

 

[Streifengnu]

It is (almost) the same thing

 

[wesheltonj]

I enyoy reading about german quality but Swaro is austrian. Leica and Zeiss (No. 1 worldwide in optic quality) are german, but not cheaper.

But not all Zeiss is German made, some of its from Asia.

 

[rookhawk]

Correct, some zeiss is US made meopta.

The new Leica's are made in USA by a third party, then shipped to Germany for QA, then shipped back. Sporting gear is all made in Portugal.

Swarovski is Swarovski of Austria however. The only non-sellout in the trio.

 

[JGRaider]

These threads are always interesting to me. While I have owned several different models of Euro glass, pure optical prowess is not my #1 motivation when buying a rifle scope. I put #1 on mechanical reliability/holding POI/POA, then usability of the reticle, and how friendly is it to actually get behind.
I've been full circle from Leupold and Redfield over 44 yrs ago, to S&B, Swaro, and a Zeiss thrown in the mix. The last 10 years or so I've come back around to the Vari X III, VX3's and VX6's as my favorites. The only scope I've had go south during a hunt was a SwaroA 3-10x42 while I was shooting at a 190" mule deer buck. I wound up shooting that poor deer all over the place due to a broken erector that, when tested afterward, had a wandering POI of 14" at 100 yds.

 

[Pia-Maria Santiago]

Thank you for sharing your experiences. This post may help me with my upcoming scope buy. I am searching presently for a new scope, to be mounted on my .375 H&H Mag. I am a Swarovski fan for many years now. I started with the Z4i Habicht. I use on my rifles the Z6i p 56 and 24. However, for my newest rifle, which I will use for the Africa hunt, I haven't decide, which rifle scope I will mount. Leupold was recommended by some hunters. Here, the rifle scopes from Leupold are way more expensive as in the US. Example, Leupold Zielfernrohr VX-6 3-18x50, Abs. 4 Fire Dot, Side Focus cost in Germany 2200.00 Euros. You put down 300 Euros more and it pays for a Z6i 2,5-15x56. My results with the Swaro on a 110 yard shuting range are most of the time whole in whole, very precise. I am a wild boar hunter here in Germany, so I hunt most of the time during evening and nights, with the Swarovski no problem at all. A hunting magazin had scored our most frequently buyed scopes. The result difference between Leupold (7,5 of 10) and Swaroski (7,8) wasn't very great.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Plenty of guys say the expensive glass is a waste of money. People say "for the money, you can't beat xyz". People will say that their Leupold is just as good as a Swarovski. I've never heard anyone say his Swarovski is just as good as a Leupold. Swarovski aren't staying in business selling expensive scopes because there is an endless supply of people looking to waste money.

 

[rookhawk]

True, Bert.

I have my own biases. I really think that the Swarovski z6 1-6x24 EE with an A4 reticle is the best scope in the world. I'm sure there are others but that's my bias.

I'm also frugal, so I buy them used for $800-$1100 knowing swaro will restore or repair free.

But here is the unvarnished two points I think should be made regardless of what brand of scope someone buys:

1.) Americans buy way too powerful of scopes. We stick out like sore thumbs as its obvious in a photo which guys are Americans. Why do we love big glass? We all think we're going to shoot elk across a canyon at 900 yards. It's just that we put that glass on a 30-30 too. It makes for slow target acquisition and poor comb/stock alignment. When seconds matter, big glass will find the target in minutes! For Africa it is rare to need more than 4x and now there are many 1-6x and 1-8x scopes that give ultimate flexibility.

2.) everyone reading this should understand what "exit pupil" means. Research it and you'll be shocked. Quick and poor summary: the exit lens MM divided by the scope magnification equals exit pupil. If you're male and you have great vision and you're over 40 years, your eye in low light opens to about 5mm. So if you spend say $100,000,000 on an observatory telescope you will not glean any more low light capabilities than a rifle scope, you're trapped by the most defective part of the equation, your pupil. So a cheezy leupold 1-5x24mm (I own one) and a swaro 1-6x24mm at 5x both let in roughly 5mm of light, the same as my eye in low light can process. Then, the only difference that can really change things is lens coatings and since the scopes are night and day different, I'll say that swaro lens coatings are WAY better. Bottom line, if light gathering is the issue, a straight tube low power scope may do just as well as a big 50mm exit lens scope due to the limiting factor of your old eyes and they're inability to let in more than 5mm of light.

 

[CAustin]

Rookhawk I agree with your first point about big scopes. You really don't need them in Africa. My VX6 has been perfect so far in terms of providing quick visibility and long range! Of course this is a 30 mm tube.

 

[Clayton]

Rookhawk is oh so right about the exit pupil. Dealing with any optics is a series of compromises. Any improvement in one aspect comes at the expense of some other factor. LOL, optics is an ideal example of where the Laws of Physics & the Laws of Economics collide.

 

[rookhawk]

Get a load of the new kid on the block! This will be perfect for leopards at twilight and a 250 yard poke at plains game the next day!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1238729-REG/swarovski_68102_z8i_1_8x24_riflescope_4a_if.html

 

[Clayton]

Thought I mentioned something about the Laws of Economics?

 

[siml]

Many years ago I had the chance to guide Mr Swarovski on a dangerous and plains game safari, remarkable gentlemen and down to earth. He left me his binoculars, I have sent them back to Austria twice to be refurbished and they have come back like brand new at no cost. Great quality optics and brilliant service.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

One way (kind of) around the law of economics is to buy quality in small numbers rather than mediocrity in large numbers. I have a z6i 1-6 on my .404 and a z6i 1.7-10 on my 30-06. Try as I might, I can't come up with any other rifles I need for hunting.

If I just had to have a dozen hunting rifles, I couldn't afford great glass for them. And I'd probably be looking for a 13th rifle because I wouldn't be satisfied. Two hunting rifles with excellent glass and I don't feel any need to buy a third.