SOUTH AFRICA: Gizmo Family's African Safari Hunt

[johnnyblues]

No worries and no salt. This is the first time I have heard a 1st person report of failure of the ammo. All the other stuff I have heard in the negative has been "my buddy has a friend who...", or "they just suck, but I haven't used them because they suck..." I am curious to keep going with this thread to find out what Hornady had to say, and what about the lot number. No offense taken, nor am I ignoring the report.

I called them several months back about reported bullet failure on the DGX DGS, claimed they have never heard of them failing! They said the completely stand by them. I won't be using them that's for sure when I book my buffalo or lion hunt in 2017.

 

[Velo Dog]

Not your fault brother. I should have done more research on them myself. I've used hornady for years and just assumed that because all their other stuff is good that would be. On a bright note I just found out the buff was seen today alive. Andri is going to go sort him out for me and all is not lost.

Gizmo,

From your many (and quite interesting / entertaining) posts, I can tell that you are a "straight arrow".
And it would be my great pleasure to meet you one day.
If our paths ever cross, the refreshments are definitely on me amigo.

Cheerio,
Velo Dog.

 

[Velo Dog]

I called them several months back about reported bullet failure on the DGX DGS, claimed they have never heard of them failing! They said the completely stand by them. I won't be using them that's for sure when I book my buffalo or lion hunt in 2017.

Hi Johnnyblues,

All these manufacturers (whether it's an ocean liner or a rifle bullet) of course will claim ignorance when people report product failure.

My impression of the Hornady DGX bullet in particular (and now perhaps the DGS as well ?) is that they cannot impact heavy muscle and bone with much velocity and still hold together every time.
It may be that Hornady has let a batch go to retailers that were too brittle (the jackets are mild steel, aka: malleable steel, aka: soft steel).
Or it may just be that this type of bullet cannot stand much velocity, generally speaking.

They are significantly similar in concept and construction to the original Pre-War Rigby bullet that made their .416 for repeaters and .450 NE for doubles and single shots justifiably famous on heavy game in Africa and India.
One thing that hunters of today (especially us North Americans) are in love with is velocity.
But when using old fashioned type bullets, velocity is an evil temptress.

I suspect but cannot prove that: original .416 Rigby ammunition only drove the 410 gr Rigby bullets at about 2200 fps and the the .450 NE it's 480 grainers about 2000 fps.
Can't prove it but I strongly suspect it.
I used the DGX and DGS on a buffalo and "plains game" because they regulated best in my particular double rifle, and believe me I shot several brands (including Woodleigh) in both 480 gr through 510 grain and several different powder brands/weights.

The Hornady bullets gave me excellent results but, I only fired them at 2050 fps muzzle velocity.
Both Kynoch and Eley brand always has claimed 2175 fps for the .450 No2 NE from 28" barrels but my old rifle was exactly so and it would only behave at 2050 fps.
Slightly faster or slower and it would throw shotgun patterns.

I was disappointed my old double did not shoot Woodleighs well because they are bonded core types and I would have preferred them.
However, the PH told me the DGX and DGS would be fine at the tame velocity my rifle demanded in order to regulate and it turned out well.
(I posted a photo of recovered bullets in my photos here on the AH forum).

Double rifles are like spoiled little brats.
If you offer them the right toy they will smile and eat their greens.
If you don't, they will throw a tantrum.
And the only way you can spank a naughty double rifle is to sell it.

At any rate, I presume you are shooting a repeater and if so, you are wise to seek the toughest bullet your rifle will shoot accurately.
In some of my earlier posts I have mentioned how very impressed I am with Swift A-Frame softs and I continue to be very much impressed with them.
For solids, it seems to me that the ones with a flat point are probably best and the monolithic ones are nearly indestructible however, some brands do deposit unacceptable amounts of copper fouling in the rifling - IMO.
And, some mono-metal bullets are not accurate in all rifles (as with pretty much any design/type of bullet, new or old).

All that being said, it is always good policy to ask your PH's opinion on bullets, calibers, scopes, clothing, especially shoes/boots and pretty much all things directly related to hunting and touring in Africa.

Good luck to you,
Velo Dog.

 

[johnnyblues]

Hi Johnnyblues,

All these manufacturers (whether it's an ocean liner or a rifle bullet) of course will claim ignorance when people report product failure.

My impression of the Hornady DGX bullet in particular (and now perhaps the DGS as well ?) is that they cannot impact heavy muscle and bone with much velocity and still hold together every time.
It may be that Hornady has let a batch go to retailers that were too brittle (the jackets are mild steel, aka: malleable steel, aka: soft steel).
Or it may just be that they cannot stand much velocity.

They are significantly similar in concept and construction to the original Pre-War Rigby bullet that made their .416 for repeaters and .450 NE for doubles and single shots justifiably famous on heavy game in Africa and India.
One thing that hunters of today (especially us North Americans) are in love with is velocity.
But when using old fashioned type bullets, velocity is an evil temptress.

I suspect but cannot prove that: original .416 Rigby ammunition only drove the 410 gr Rigby bullets at about 2200 fps and the the .450 NE it's 480 grainers about 2000 fps.
Can't prove it but I strongly suspect it.
I used the DGX and DGS on a buffalo and "plains game" because they regulated best in my particular double rifle, and believe me I shot several brands (including Woodleigh) in both 480 gr through 510 grain and several different powder brands/weights.

The Hornady bullets gave me excellent results but, I only fired them at 2050 fps muzzle velocity.
Both Kynoch and Eley brand always has claimed 2175 fps for the .450 No2 NE from 28" barrels but my old rifle was exactly so and it would only behave at 2050 fps.
Slightly faster or slower and it would throw shotgun patterns.

I was disappointed my old double did not shoot Woodleighs well because they are bonded core types and I would have preferred them.
However, the PH told me the DGX and DGS would be fine at the tame velocity my rifle demanded in order to regulate and it turned out well.
(I posted a photo of recovered bullets in my photos here on the AH forum).

Double rifles are like a spoiled little brat.
If you offer them the right toy they will smile and eat their greens.
If you don't, they will throw a tantrum
And the only way you can spank a naughty double rifle is to sell it.

At any rate, I presume you are shooting a large bore repeater or, at least a medium bore (.375 H&H, or 9.3x64, etc) and if so, you are wise to seek the toughest bullet your rifle will shoot accurately with.
In some of my earlier posts I have mentioned how very impressed I am with Swift A-Frame softs and I continue to be very much impressed with them.

All that being said, it is always good policy to ask your PH's opinion on bullets, calibers, scopes, clothing, especially shoes/boots and pretty much all things directly related to hunting and touring in Africa.

Good luck to you,
Velo Dog.

Yes sir, when I do book either buffalo /plains game, or lion hunt for 2017 I will have Superior Ammo load for me. I spoke with them shortly after speaking to Erik ( gizmo) after hearing of this dismal bullet failure. I told Erik the same thing...Bullet is just too fast for it's construction. I will be shooting a 375 Ruger Superior recommended swift a frame on the buff or woodleighs and he loved Hawks soft points for lion. The way the publicity is going I don't think lion importation we be allowed by 2017...

 

[johnnyblues]

Gizmo,

From your many (and quite interesting / entertaining) posts, I can tell that you are a "straight arrow".
And it would be my great pleasure to meet you one day.
If our paths ever cross, the refreshments are definitely on me amigo.

Cheerio,
Velo Dog.

I second that! Although I ve never met Erik in person we've text ed each other many times even while on his safari we kept in touch..He became my whatsapp buddy! lol...Velo you get the drinks I got the snacks...Would be my pleasure to meet both of you.

 

[Velo Dog]

Yes sir, when I do book either buffalo /plains game, or lion hunt for 2017 I will have Superior Ammo load for me. I spoke with them shortly after speaking to Erik ( gizmo) after hearing of this dismal bullet failure. I told Erik the same thing...Bullet is just too fast for it's construction. I will be shooting a 375 Ruger Superior recommended swift a frame on the buff or woodleighs and he loved Hawks soft points for lion. The way the publicity is going I don't think lion importation we be allowed by 2017...

Hi again Johnnyblues,

I agree that lion hunting is going to be juju in the world news for awhile, perhaps a long while.

It is sort of surprising to me that Superior lumps Woodleighs in with A-Frame, in terms of buffalo hunting.
And, surprising that they do not highly recommend Woodleigh round nose soft, right in there with Hawk bullets for lion.
It's just that the A-Frame has proven itself to be one of the hunting world's toughest soft points (it is my favorite in the category of extra tough soft point bullets).

Not that Woodleighs are feeble, I do not suspect that at all, especially if you avoid using them in super high velocity cartridges, such as Weatherby, Remington Ultra-Mag, Lazzeroni, etc.
Not that Hawk is a feeble bullet by any means either, they have an excellent reputation here in Alaska to say the least but again, they are essentially of the old school design (dreaded "cup & core" design) and so, I would not use them at very high velocity - personally.

If I ever get a .404 Jeffery, I plan to try Hawk 300 grain semi spitzers, at about 2600 fps in Namibia or South Africa, with the thickest jacket offered, for so called plains game some day.
Superior brand is not without it's rumors and detractors (like anything else) but, most folks who have used it seem to like it and personally, I have no experience with it so I cannot vote on it.
As I recall the Ruger cartridge is about the same velocity as the H&H version or perhaps a little faster.
I repeat that you are wise to use the toughest soft that your particular rifle will shoot accurately.

Best regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[Velo Dog]

I second that! Although I ve never met Erik in person we've text ed each other many times even while on his safari we kept in touch..He became my whatsapp buddy! lol...Velo you get the drinks I got the snacks...Would be my pleasure to meet both of you.

Count me in brother, and sign me up as the regards are mutual.

 

[jduckhunter]

Not taking up for Hornady or wanting to be a fly in the ointment but here's a photo of three DGS's in .375 the two on the left were taken out of my buff, the one on the right is new and unfired. I hit him with four DGS's at about 40 yards, trying to speed up his demise. We only recovered two of the four, the other two went clean through. I was using a .375 Ruger and I loaded the bullets to app. .375 H&H velocity. I wish you would have had the same results with yours, I don't know what the problem was with them but it sounds like they are not going to fix it any time soon.

 

[johnnyblues]

Hi again Johnnyblues,

I agree that lion hunting is going to be juju in the world news for awhile, perhaps a long while.

It is sort of surprising to me that Superior lumps Woodleighs in with A-Frame, in terms of buffalo hunting.
And, surprising that they do not highly recommend Woodleigh round nose soft, right in there with Hawk bullets for lion.
It's just that the A-Frame has proven itself to be one of the hunting world's toughest soft points (it is my favorite in the category of extra tough soft point bullets).

Not that Woodleighs are feeble, I do not suspect that at all, especially if you avoid using them in super high velocity cartridges, such as Weatherby, Remington Ultra-Mag, Lazzeroni, etc.
Not that Hawk is a feeble bullet by any means either, they have an excellent reputation here in Alaska to say the least but again, they are essentially of the old school design (dreaded "cup & core" design) and so, I would not use them at very high velocity - personally.

If I ever get a .404 Jeffery, I plan to try Hawk 300 grain semi spitzers, at about 2600 fps in Namibia or South Africa, with the thickest jacket offered, for so called plains game some day.
Superior brand is not without it's rumors and detractors (like anything else) but, most folks who have used it seem to like it and personally, I have no experience with it so I cannot vote on it.
As I recall the Ruger cartridge is about the same velocity as the H&H version or perhaps a little faster.
I repeat that you are wise to use the toughest soft that your particular rifle will shoot accurately.

Best regards,
Velo Dog.

My personal choice is swift a frame. Judging by the enormous popularity here on this site and others. The ruger is somewhat faster than theH&H. I'll buys box of A frames and see how the gun like em.

 

[johnnyblues]

Not taking up for Hornady or wanting to be a fly in the ointment but here's a photo of three DGS's in .375 the two on the left were taken out of my buff, the one on the right is new and unfired. I hit him with four DGS's at about 40 yards, trying to speed up his demise. We only recovered two of the four, the other two went clean through. I was using a .375 Ruger and I loaded the bullets to app. .375 H&H velocity. I wish you would have had the same results with yours, I don't know what the problem was with them but it sounds like they are not going to fix it any time soon. View attachment 46009

Were those reloads you made or factory? Sorry I just realized you loaded them. I would have to assume they are just too hot from the factory.

 

[johnnyblues]

Just thinking...If I m successful on my leopard hunt early I plan to hunt some plains game, namely kudu,eland,hartebeest, Hartsman zebra and steen bok. I am already sighted in with factory 270 sp bullets for my 375 Ruger, hope they perform well....If my PH recommends I not use it I ll use my 300 wsm with either 180 gr Noslers ( which I ll use on the cat hopefully....) or I have Federal ammo with Barnes tsx bullets with me also.

 

[Panielsen]

As everyone for the most part knows, I am a HUGE Hornady fan. I have used both their bullets and loaded ammunition for years now with great results. I will say however that I am not going to risk losing my 1st Buff in October due to a failure. This hurt me deeply looking into other makes etc, etc... What I have decided on after a ton of research is the Cutting Edge Raptor in my .458 Win Mag, at least to replace the DGX which I am now hearing troubling things about. I too was worried about fouling my barrel, but in my research I discovered that Cutting Edge took a trick from the navy. Instead of the bullet surface riding along the rifling, the drive bands do. In the naval guns, the steel bodies of the projo's do not take the cutting/sealing of the rifling. So, they have the drive bands to create that seal. Also, the Raptors are basically a solid that is packing 6 sharp projectiles that break off and create their own wound channels. In any case I have a box of 470 gr on the way now and will let those who haven't used them yet know what I think. As for solids, still not decided yet. This was the first case I heard of that they broke up. I have heard of them deviating course and flattening against bone before, but never breaking up. Time will tell as to what I do on solids.

 

[siml]

Stay away from solids!!

 

[Panielsen]

Stay away from solids!!

As in don't use them at all???

 

[siml]

Only time I use solids is for wounded buffalo.

 

[Panielsen]

Only time I use solids is for wounded buffalo.

I'll be damned.... I was always told load solids under your softs to break the animal down to keep them from going very far very fast!


Just when I thought I was half way smart..... Lol

 

[siml]

In the old days ....yes solids...because a soft was just a piece of lead..now with advanced bullets, a soft does much more damage, a solid can pass through without damage.

 

[Panielsen]

In the old days ....yes solids...because a soft was just a piece of lead..now with advanced bullets, a soft does much more damage, a solid can pass through without damage.

So you think a full magazine of Raptors would be ideal?

 

[siml]

I don't know RAPTORS..

 

[Panielsen]

I don't know RAPTORS..

Sorry @TMS, here is a link.

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=DGHP

I was impressed....