Which uses in Africa for marlin 1895 cal 45-70 new release (LeverEvolution)

[bebo]

Hello,
Is it possible to do something in Africa with the "new" 1895 GBL, SBL, Gun Guide .. cal 45-70 new release :
325grs
V0 2050 V100 1720
E0 3032 E100 2158
with a very good momentum and ... a poor G1 .. Zero @ 100 is not so bad ... Lol
6 cartridges +1 , fast load, pretty good accuracy, short and well balanced.
Back up rifle ? Better than a pump action ....

 

[enysse]

I don't see why not, I have a 30-30 that would probably be great at short range in regions like the Limpopo Province.

 

[James.Grage]

45-70 you say.

You not said if it is scoped or open sights. I suggest you forgo the elephants & rhino snipping.

Open sight you should be able to sit in a blind and plink a few African game critters. And from the videos of water hole shooters that is a great range of animals.

With a scope you should be able to go to 100+ yards.

You would have to make the call of if you think it is a good shot or not. The arm chair quarterbacks, will be great at second guessing any decision you make.

 

[enysse]

Yes, you could load it for the Big 5, but why do it, you have other guns you could use.

 

[sestoppelman]

There is plenty that can be done with this combo in Africa. Keep your shots within ideally 150 yds, or really know your bullet drop, don't try to stretch its abilities beyond buffalo and the cats and it will do the job. Of course many feel that somehow the .45-70 has no place in Africa but within its limitations I don't see why not. Tell you what. If I had to face a charging buffalo and my choices were a .300 Weatherby or a .45-70, (with suitable load) give me the old Govt every time.

 

[bebo]

OK...
It seems to be a question with complex answers. I have 2 "african cal." 9.3x62 & .416RM, but ..
I was wondering if for cats , as a back-up gun or not .. , it could do the trick.
I won't exchange my .416RM on buf and beyond ... but for cats ?
Yours answers seem to be "why not, but ... try without me and let me know"
Am I right ?
This kind of cal is unusual, exotic, maybe even " folk" in Africa, but it do the job for bears (the whole bears) , hence my question.
Pierre van der Watt (African Dangerous Game Cartridges) advises high speed & "soft" expanding bullet for cats.
Ok .. but an "large" bullet will do the job or no , maybe .. all is in the "maybe" ...
Pump cal 12 are used to research wounded cats, why not the 45-70 ?
.... Somebody wants to try ... ?

Thanks for yours opinions.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hi Bebo,

This .45-70 question has been kicked around many camp fires here in North America and over in Africa as well but, I do not believe any solid answer has been agreed upon by many hunters.
Here where I live, many people hunt bear, moose and bison with the .45-70, as well as lesser species.
However, the newer flex tip / lighter bullets are not extremely popular in Alaska.
I think they were designed with white tail deer hunting in mind (averaging about identical body size, muscle and bone structure to common reedbok).

The most popular bullet up here seems to be 400 grains, or in some brands-405 grains (Remington), either jacketed soft nose (flat nose profile/shape) or hard cast of lead with antimony mix so that it deforms very little if any at all on impact (there are no white tail deer in Alaska).
The popular shape for cast 400 gr bullets in .45-70 up here is also flat nose.
Hunters here generally shoot these bullets at about 1300 feet per second to about 1800 fps.
Although 400 grainers can possibly be driven faster, nonetheless the above velocity spread is popular here.

Also, Hornady bullet company has for many years made a 350 grain round nose, (jacketed soft point) that is a little bit popular here as well, and typically those are driven a little faster, but not much (recoil gets fierce in the Marlin lever action design, due to its light weight and the fast drop in the buttstock design).
By reputation, the .45-70, when loaded with a tough 400 grain bullet, or perhaps the mentioned 350 gr, is very adequate for grizzly and other large North American game.
However, in my experience with it (I have hunted deer on Kodiak Island with the 405 grain Remington factory load of about 1300 fps), it is not very easy to hit things beyond about 200 yards and 150 yds is probably a more realistic limit with open sights.

My point? ... I will guess that the .45-70 would do real well on lion, eland and a host of lesser species, within the yardage limitations this cartridge has (somewhere around 200 yds, the bullets begin to fall from the sky in a rainbow shaped trajectory).
No doubt you could let the air out of elephant and African buffalo with the right bullet in the right place from a .45-70 ... but, I believe some countries might prohibit it for those species as being under powered?

Even if all countries do permit it for the heavy DG species, I personally see no wisdom in selecting it for hunting them and/or for sorting them out if wounded when we already have better cartridges for those animals, such as the .404 Jeffery, .416 Rigby and .458 Lott, to name but three of the many.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[bebo]

Interesting opinion , I begin to see more clearly :
Range : 60 to 120 yds, 120yds with scope like 1.5-5/6 x 20 or 24 or "red point"
Speed/ weight : "fastess" ..hum .. and "lightess" .. hum again .. 325/350 grs bullet for light game
"heaviest" and slower bullet for heavy or dangerous game except buf or pachidermes, but include cats if
permitted by laws .
45-70 is a new cal for me (Marlin 1895) buy .. for the fun, but I was pleasantly surprised. Short rifle easy to manage,
6+1 , weak recoil ( vs my 9.3x62 or .. 416RM), pretty good momentum until 100yds, accuracy if "scoped" not so bad
until 100yds, efficient open sight until 60 yds (I'm 67 soon ..).
But I asked your opinion , because hunting is not shooting on the range ...
hunters must have confidence in the effectiveness of their ammunition ...
Thanks all for your sound advices.

 

[AZDAVE]

I have shot 45/70 in everything from a trapdoor Springfield with black powder loads to a throated Ruger #1 with hotrod loads (400 gr at 2200). It is one of my favorite calibers. Have shot the load you talk about a good bit. The 325 hornaday expands like crazy, my buddy shot a black-tail deer in Alaska and it dropped the buck in a spectacular fashion. The exit wound was about baseball size and there was some blood shot meat lost. I would use it on deer size Plains game. For kudu, gemsbok, to cape eland size plains game would step up to the 400 gr bullets. Keep the range a 125 and under and will harvest animals cleanly. I would also use it on cats and keep the shots under 75. For cape buff it has been used but when you get a load that is capable, as already mentioned the recoil goes up because of light weight and stock design. Will it work yes however If I am going to take 416 rem/rigby level of recoil I want a big bore in my hands preferably my 450NE double. Your marlin is a fast handling easy to carry fun rifle. Keep it within its performance envelope and have a great time.

 

[CAustin]

Well said AZDAVE. I also used my Marlin 1895 on a Whitetail deer and it blew the whole far shoulder off the animal and took three ribs with it. I put a Cabelas brand scope on mine that has the compensation built into the scope for the 325 gr Hornady round and it works like a charm out to 250 yards. I took it to Africa on my first trip to use in heavy brush.

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

I don't see why a .45-70 lever gun wouldn't be adequate for any of the plains game species......I think that they key here is "range". If you would like to try and stalk close to a gemsbok, Kudu, zebra, or whatever, and put the slug in the vitals, I think it would work quite well.
However, I don't care for the way that Hornady has been advertising their "leverlution" line (turning a .45-70, 30/30, or whatever into a "long range" gun).
I've never hunted dangerous game, so I will beg off on that aspect of the discussion....however, I will say that if it were me, I'd want a proven cartridge/rifle combo that is capable of taking such game, and taking it cleanly.....I don't want to have my P.H. "clean up my mess" .
Someone mentioned using the gun in Limpopo....I hunted in Limpopo last summer, and I thought it would be cool to take my open sighted Winchester 94 in .30/30 and use it to take warthog, impala, blesbok, and animals of similar weight, either from sitting at a waterhole or stalking. However, I've been told (and maybe I'm misinformed) that lever actions are illegal to bring into South Africa......is this correct?
Don't want to hijack the thread, but thought it might be an important consideration.....

 

[Velo Dog]

I don't see why a .45-70 lever gun wouldn't be adequate for any of the plains game species......I think that they key here is "range". If you would like to try and stalk close to a gemsbok, Kudu, zebra, or whatever, and put the slug in the vitals, I think it would work quite well.
However, I don't care for the way that Hornady has been advertising their "leverlution" line (turning a .45-70, 30/30, or whatever into a "long range" gun).
I've never hunted dangerous game, so I will beg off on that aspect of the discussion....however, I will say that if it were me, I'd want a proven cartridge/rifle combo that is capable of taking such game, and taking it cleanly.....I don't want to have my P.H. "clean up my mess" .
Someone mentioned using the gun in Limpopo....I hunted in Limpopo last summer, and I thought it would be cool to take my open sighted Winchester 94 in .30/30 and use it to take warthog, impala, blesbok, and animals of similar weight, either from sitting at a waterhole or stalking. However, I've been told (and maybe I'm misinformed) that lever actions are illegal to bring into South Africa......is this correct?
Don't want to hijack the thread, but thought it might be an important consideration.....

I believe lever action rifles are lawful in South Africa but, ask your PH to be sure.
Incidentally, the .30-30 appears to be a miniature .450/400 NE (the 3" version, not the 3.25" one).

 

[AZDAVE]

Mr 16 gauge, the 45/70 is adequate for all the plains game, just not that bullet! it is to fragile to use on the bigger plains game. You don't want to hit a blue wildebeest, gemsbok, zebra, cape eland etc in the shoulder and have the 325 leverlution just blow up and wound the animal. The odds of loosing a big animal with it is just to great when you can for a few dollars more use a premium bullet that will do the job.

 

[bebo]

@AZDAVE "just not that bullet!" & "325 leverlution just blow up and wound the animal" OK : understood , thanks! :
"forewarned is forearmed" as you say no ?
AZ like Arizona ?

 

[AZDAVE]

Yes, I am about 80 miles from Tucson.

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Mr 16 gauge, the 45/70 is adequate for all the plains game, just not that bullet! it is to fragile to use on the bigger plains game. You don't want to hit a blue wildebeest, gemsbok, zebra, cape eland etc in the shoulder and have the 325 leverlution just blow up and wound the animal. The odds of loosing a big animal with it is just to great when you can for a few dollars more use a premium bullet that will do the job.

AZDave;
If you'll reread my post, I think you'll see that I said that I don't care for the Hornady "leverlution" ammo.......I much prefer the classic "cast" bullet loads in the .45-70, 32/40, .38-55, etc. They worked before "modernization"; they should continue to do so now (unless some laboratory is creating "super critters" that are somehow bullet proof).......IF one considers the range limits of said cartridges.
I probably should have been more clear in my post.................
Take care...........

 

[bebo]

Long time ago (22 years ...) I worked in Phoenix for 2 years, 2 weeks in Phoenix, 2 months here in France.
I'm in love with AZ (Tucson, Phoenix-Mesa-Tempe-Scottsdale, Flagstaf ) ... I hope to go back ... one day, sure!

 

[AZDAVE]

Mr 16 Guage, you are correct. I reread your post and see that you much prefer cast, sorry for my not getting that the first time. You also in the above post mentioned a couple of my favorite small classic calibers 32/40 and 38/55 they are just a pleasant way to ring steel and put a smile on your face.