Holland & Holland launches its Take Down Rifle

[Red Leg]

This H&H take down system was on their rifles for years . I was unaware they’d stopped making rifles with this feature . The prices asked are crazy but people will pay . Their quick detachable scope mountings are fabulous . I have them on a 300 H&H magnum . As a final comment I have 2 WR bayonet takedowns a 318 and a 425 - they are very accurate for me at the ranges I hunt at 50-150 yards . I am a fan of takedowns .

My WR .318 works exactly as advertised back somewhere around the first world war. I love it. But, it is not an R8. Still, it is far more than adequate for any game I would take on the African continent south of the Sahara.

 

[PCC600]

My WR .318 works exactly as advertised back somewhere around the first world war. I love it. But, it is not an R8.

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Same as mine from 1908 . The 425 from 1912 and has been used hard . These rifles are wonderful .

 

[Wyfox]

There's more to the eye if you look close.
They took their 100 year old design and refined it. The rifle has a carbon chassis which you can see in the video in the barrel channel, one piece magazine box and bottom metal afixed to the stock with a concealed screw, and they advertise a titanium trigger. Granted starting price of 60,000 pounds($80,000usd) is hard to swallow for 95% of hunters. They're obviously competing against Purdey and Westley Richards for a "Best" bolt gun with modern precision rifle features.

 

[SStomcat]

It always amazes me that there are enough guys in the world to buy this stuff at those prices, from multiple manufacturers in the England. But I guess if your only building 100 guns a year total,.....the worlds a big place and there are a lot of guys that are just filling their vaults with treasure and the stuff will never see the light of day.

Please count on the Arab Sheikhs as well...

 

[SStomcat]

On a Blaser R8, the barrel and the scope come off. When reassembled, mine, in I think seven different chamberings currently, all shoot to exactly the same point of aim. That is innovation.

My take on this is that as long as the barrel and scope stay together, it will always zero in. Sauer 404 scope mounts, though heavily expensive, claim to return to zero every time you mount a zeroed scope. So far, it has been true for me.

 

[steve white]

On a Blaser R8, the barrel and the scope come off. When reassembled, mine, in I think seven different chamberings currently, all shoot to exactly the same point of aim. That is innovation.

And for less money.....

 

[grand veneur]

On a Blaser R8, the barrel and the scope come off. When reassembled, mine, in I think seven different chamberings currently, all shoot to exactly the same point of aim. That is innovation.

I don't deny that something like this works well in terms of maintaining accuracy and precision. The fact that you can save money is also an argument in favor. However, in practice, I see no advantage to interchangeable barrels, in the African bush for example, if two different cartridges are to be used during the same hunting trip.

 

[318AE]

I don't deny that something like this works well in terms of maintaining accuracy and precision. The fact that you can save money is also an argument in favor. However, in practice, I see no advantage to interchangeable barrels, in the African bush for example, if two different cartridges are to be used during the same hunting trip.

I used this Holland and Holland take apart earlier today to take this Tommy. In three international trips, I have so much as moved the scope one click, taking it apart many times. Their system works quite well.

 

[rookhawk]

I don't mean to be pedantic, but its worth holding fast to traditional definitions so you can appreciate the differences.

A "Take Down" Rifle is a rifle where the barrel and action come apart in two pieces. These are works of art, the best on this thread being @Red Leg 's 318 WR of which I also have owned one. Daniel Fraser made some beautiful take-downs also, and Dakota/Parkwest make their traveler which is a real peach too.

A "Take Apart Rifle" is far easier to make and far easier to make accurately. I could make one, but I can't make a take down. Examples would be all of the Mannlicher-Schoenauer take-aparts where you can remove the barreled action from the stock with two screws or levers for compact travel and easy cleaning. The H&H rifles of many eras were "take apart" as well, usually requiring a coin to tighten two bottom screws. Their inaccuracy was caused because the order of tightening and bolt tension was never the same twice. Still 1MOA-2MOA rifles, but not take-downs.

Just sharing these traditional definitions so our various anecdotes and examples appreciate the vast differences in complexity and workmanship between the two.

 

[farmer_john]

I don't mean to be pedantic, but its worth holding fast to traditional definitions so you can appreciate the differences.

A "Take Down" Rifle is a rifle where the barrel and action come apart in two pieces. These are works of art, the best on this thread being @Red Leg 's 318 WR of which I also have owned one. Daniel Fraser made some beautiful take-downs also, and Dakota/Parkwest make their traveler which is a real peach too.

A "Take Apart Rifle" is far easier to make and far easier to make accurately. I could make one, but I can't make a take down. Examples would be all of the Mannlicher-Schoenauer take-aparts where you can remove the barreled action from the stock with two screws or levers for compact travel and easy cleaning. The H&H rifles of many eras were "take apart" as well, usually requiring a coin to tighten two bottom screws. Their inaccuracy was caused because the order of tightening and bolt tension was never the same twice. Still 1MOA-2MOA rifles, but not take-downs.

Just sharing these traditional definitions so our various anecdotes and examples appreciate the vast differences in complexity and workmanship between the two.

Always good to be on the same page.

 

[Major Bonkers]

But, Mr. Rookhawk, Holland and Holland refer to their system as a 'takedown magazine rifle'.

I own an H&H takedown in .375, which was made in the late '60s: it is on the same basis as this model, and comes apart by using a coin to unscrew the captive screw in the stock. I bought it at auction for some 10% of what Mr. Wyfox (above) says is the price of a new rifle (and mine came with a leather gun case). It is, by some yards, the most badly put together rifle that I have ever owned, and required half as much money again to put in good order. The stock kicked me black and blue (although that might be because it was originally fitted for some hunchback, but - frankly - I doubt it): the most serious failure was that the QD mounts did not align with the barrel. Now, time and expense later, we are friends.

It is difficult to see what additional magic a strip of carbon fibre in the stock is going to perform.

These are attractive rifles; but given that Rigby will sell you a 'Shikari' boxlock for the same money (plus a bit left over), or an un-takedown rifle for a sixth of the price, that would strike me as a much better deal.

I suspect that if you really want a rifle on this system that George Gibbs would make you one.

 

[Wyfox]

They state all their bolt rifles going forward will be take down rifles.

 

[farmer_john]

They state all their bolt rifles going forward will be take down rifles.

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Looks like the carbon fiber is a classy bedding job.

Aside from impeccable fit and finish i fail to see how its any different than a regular hunting rifle thats glass and pillar bedded 2x screws vs 1

Wish I knew what the barel profile measurments were

 

[Wyfox]

Looks like the carbon fiber is a classy bedding job.

Aside from impeccable fit and finish i fail to see how its any different than a regular hunting rifle thats glass and pillar bedded 2x screws vs 1

Wish I knew what the barel profile measurments were

The biggest difference is the trigger guard floorplate is afixed to the stock and there is a lip on the rear tang that slides into a machined chassis that replaces the need for a rear action screw. Similar but in many ways different too. I believe Lothar Walther suplies the barrel blanks to H&H and LW offers 2 H&H contours on their website.

 

[Aaron N]

I know a number of guys that take rifles that cost $200K+ hunting. BTW, the rifle above is not that expensive compared to most custom rifles. We are not talking about their Royal doubles.


Difference is that it keeps zero. Your regular rifle has enough slop in it that one can lose zero taking it apart and putting it together again.

My takedown rifle is a Blaser R8.

Starting at 68k pounds might not be much if your custom rifles come from Westley Richard’s, but you can get a rifle built by a top smith stateside jsut a pretty and functional for a hell of a lot less than that.

 

[Huvius]

I don't mean to be pedantic, but its worth holding fast to traditional definitions so you can appreciate the differences.

A "Take Down" Rifle is a rifle where the barrel and action come apart in two pieces. These are works of art, the best on this thread being @Red Leg 's 318 WR of which I also have owned one. Daniel Fraser made some beautiful take-downs also, and Dakota/Parkwest make their traveler which is a real peach too.

A "Take Apart Rifle" is far easier to make and far easier to make accurately. I could make one, but I can't make a take down. Examples would be all of the Mannlicher-Schoenauer take-aparts where you can remove the barreled action from the stock with two screws or levers for compact travel and easy cleaning. The H&H rifles of many eras were "take apart" as well, usually requiring a coin to tighten two bottom screws. Their inaccuracy was caused because the order of tightening and bolt tension was never the same twice. Still 1MOA-2MOA rifles, but not take-downs.

Just sharing these traditional definitions so our various anecdotes and examples appreciate the vast differences in complexity and workmanship between the two.

Mannlicher called their system a “takedown” in their period advertising so I don’t see this as any sort of a rule.

 

[Huvius]

That should not have a poi shift because the barrel is not comming off.
I think it would be a innovation if it was a tool less take down.

The best “tool less” version of this type of takedown bolt action is the Newton design.
The floor plate is integral with the front action screw so one simply hinges open the floor plate and rotates it to unscrew.
Much better than a coin or T-handle as used in this video.

 

[BANDF]

But, Mr. Rookhawk, Holland and Holland refer to their system as a 'takedown magazine rifle'.

I own an H&H takedown in .375, which was made in the late '60s: it is on the same basis as this model, and comes apart by using a coin to unscrew the captive screw in the stock. I bought it at auction for some 10% of what Mr. Wyfox (above) says is the price of a new rifle (and mine came with a leather gun case). It is, by some yards, the most badly put together rifle that I have ever owned, and required half as much money again to put in good order. The stock kicked me black and blue (although that might be because it was originally fitted for some hunchback, but - frankly - I doubt it): the most serious failure was that the QD mounts did not align with the barrel. Now, time and expense later, we are friends.

It is difficult to see what additional magic a strip of carbon fibre in the stock is going to perform.

These are attractive rifles; but given that Rigby will sell you a 'Shikari' boxlock for the same money (plus a bit left over), or an un-takedown rifle for a sixth of the price, that would strike me as a much better deal.

I suspect that if you really want a rifle on this system that George Gibbs would make you one.

Well put... I stupidly didn't purchase an original H&H takedown in .300 H&H for 5K Canadian many years ago.

While it's wonderful seeing H&H release the takedown again, it's a little odd that it's being played off or marketed as something revolutionary, when it's already been done by them and others.

Gorgeous rifles nonetheless!

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Mannlicher called their system a “takedown” in their period advertising so I don’t see this as any sort of a rule.

Yes, they did, though it was nearly the same system used on this Mauser actioned Westley Richards, 1912:

Mannlicher Schoenauer, Stoeger 1939:

Mannlicher Schoenauer M1910Take Down Model:

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

The best “tool less” version of this type of takedown bolt action is the Newton design.
The floor plate is integral with the front action screw so one simply hinges open the floor plate and rotates it to unscrew.
Much better than a coin or T-handle as used in this video.

The Mannlicher Schoenauer TD requires only a bullet tip or stick, pencil.. to depress the magazine cover spring. From thence one turns the magazine cover 90 degrees, pulls mag out from bottom, flips lever fore of trigger guard, removes forend pin, barreled action lifts out of stock.