DEER RIFLES IN AFRICA

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

NOPE Dodge 2500 cummins turbo diesel

I knew it, that is even worse you want to shoot a Big gun but drive a 6 cyl lol see I drive the 2011 ford superduty 6.7 diesel KIng OF The Mountain Best Truck MADE

A very BIG 6 CYL.

[QUOTE=BARTFRNCS;50029]I am not trying to be abrasive! I live in Colorado home of the biggest Elk heard in the world. You always see the new guys or out of staters with smaller caliber rifles. The truth is that many elk get wounded by these rifles limp off (Elk are TOUGH they can limp off for miles) to die a painful death.[QUOTE]

I have to disagree.
My grandfather was parthers with a father/son team who carried 340 WBYs and both of them were afraid of their rifles. My Grandfather had many stories of how his 30-06 had to save the day because these clowns had wounded another animal with their ego driven flinches. His opinion was small guns dont wound animals, small pen...ses do.

No elk limps off for long distances with a high quality bullet in the lungs and/or heart.
If it limps off for longer distances, then either a crap bullet has been used or there has been some crap shooting.

I have been tracking and found 100+ wounded deer and moose with my tracking dogs and not one of them have been a result of being undergunned.
Maybe 5% have been because someone used a soft crap bullet and the rest have been a result of crap shooting.
You can always say that if the 5% with a crap bullet had used a much larger caliber with the same crap bullet, then the animal would have died.
But I am 100% sure that if they had used a high quality bullet in the same caliber, all those 5% would get killed quickly.

I think a smaller caliber with a quality bullet will win most accuracy contests. A shot in the wrong place, will not insure a clean kill. A animal that dies dead right there is not going to happen everytime...it's a fairy tale. I'll stick to my "small" bores, thank you. Same with my muzzleloader and bow. Shot placement!

Well if you are only going to stick to small bores then enjoy your self imposed limitations. Never thought this topic would stir up such emotion. I know that I'll keep useing my magnums 375H&H's and 450 rigbys and get more shot oppertunities and DRT performance.

Originally Posted by Norwegianwoods

I have been tracking and found 100+ wounded deer and moose with my tracking dogs and not one of them have been a result of being undergunned.

I cant disagree with you for the most parts, but I think I have experienced one such example. One guy in my hunting party shot a big bull moose and hit him on the huge bony joint at the shoulder. The moose was shot and killed by another hunter 5 km away 3 hours later.
The first bullet did crush the shoulderjoint, but did not penetrate trough and into the chest cavity.
It was with a 308 and Federal ammo with Nosler Partition bullet. The bullet looked normal, but was stucked in the heavy bone.
Maybe something was wrong with that particular round or lot, I dont know.
I must add that this particular moose was extremely heavy build. I think 308, 6,5 and their like are adequate for moose, but barely.

I just remembered that my mother shot a reindeer bull in the neck with excactly the same ammo, Federal with Nosler Partition. The bullet didnt went trough the neck, but it crushed the spine and killed the bull on the spot. I remember we was amazed that the bullet didnt went trough. She was also using a 308.
Later I read an article about Federal screwing up on some loads intended for Norwegian seal hunters. They packed and sold them as common big game ammo in Norway.
So maybe it was the ammo in both cases.

Can say I would rather see a guy come with a gun that he used to shooting rather than a cannon bought for safari that he can't handle. I have used a 270 with Nosler Ballistic for every plains animal and some dangerous. Don't want to do the dangerous again but was forced to. All is about shot placement. Energy is great, but not if it is in the wrong place.

Still don't understand guys paying big bucks to come hunt and can't hit a barn. We have a CHASA test on full size impala targets at three distances, a great way to practice.

The bottom line, shoot what you normally shoot and are comfortable with.

Originally Posted by Wolverine67

I just remembered that my mother shot a reindeer bull in the neck with excactly the same ammo, Federal with Nosler Partition. The bullet didnt went trough the neck, but it crushed the spine and killed the bull on the spot. I remember we was amazed that the bullet didnt went trough. She was also using a 308.
Later I read an article about Federal screwing up on some loads intended for Norwegian seal hunters. They packed and sold them as common big game ammo in Norway.
So maybe it was the ammo in both cases.

When you said it was Federal ammo with Nosler Partition bullets in 308, I guess it was the ammo failing if this is rather many years ago.
There was a lot of that coming to Norway that was totally crap. I don't remember the year it was made, but it failed big time 3 times for 2 different hunters I hunted together with in the same weekend.
The first was a moose calf. The hunter shot it a bit high at 70-80 meters and hit the spine. The bullet didn't even crush the spine on the moose calf. It only damaged a bit of the bone and was lodged just at the spinal cord. He gave it a second shot in the chest at about 50-60 meters. The bullet just stopped in the offside shoulder as soon as it passed the lungs without hitting any heavy bones. Just the thin plate of the scapula.
The day after another hunter shot a red deer hind at 60-70 meters in the shoulder and I had to track it for about 300 meters before I found her. The bullet had just passed the first lung and was found in the blood in the chest.
They used the same ammo.
Needless to say, both bought different ammo for the next weekend of hunting.

We never opened and checked the powder charge of that ammo, but I suspect it was missing lots of powder.

Yes, this had to be over 20 years ago? Wasn't that moose calf mentioned in the article i reffered to?

Originally Posted by Wolverine67

Yes, this had to be over 20 years ago? Wasn't that moose calf mentioned in the article i reffered to?

I think it happened around 1990. It is so many years ago, so I don't remember the exact year. I don't recall that the hunt with the moose calf and the red deer hind shot with failing bullets on our hunt was in an article. But I am not sure. I know I talked with Svein Sollli about it the same year as it happened.
Maybe he wrote an article about it.

All boils down to shooting a gun you can handle, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".... But, don't knock someone who can't handle the heat,,,, they may be a lot better hunter,(( key word being "hunter")), than you....

well I always say " If it can't be killed with a .30/06 I've got no point hunting it"

With that said I believe a well placed .30/06 would kill darn near anything.

IF you guys grew up hunting large game and shooting big bore rifles you're used to the recoil, but bring someone who has never shot anything bigger than a .270 to Africa and give him a .375H&H, see how well they shoot after feeling that recoil once.

Yep, any deer rifle (.270, 7mm to .30) can be used to HUNT plains game just fine with heavy for calibre or premium loads and accurate shooting. If you must have that trophy and don't mind blowing the wee beasties inside out from arse to throat then take a cannon.

Originally Posted by dvdegeorge

Very well stated Marius! I think that pretty much sums things up for game on every continent in the world....

My son and I are hunting with Marius in July. When we talked on the phone, I told him we'd be using my 7-08 for the smaller animals and was about to buy a 300wsm for the Zebra and Oryx. He said, "Jerry you don't need to buy that 300, the 7-08 will kill every animal on your list."
My response was "Please don't ever say that in front of my wife. I have her convinced I "need" a new rifle."
lol.

btw, I purchased the same exact model as my 7-08, other than being a little heavier they are the same. I will shoot it much before going, but I don't think it'll be much to get used to.

Im glad Im not paying your trophy fees!!

I agree as the trophy fees will be substantial after a very successful safari.

Good luck and have fun!

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

Im glad Im not paying your trophy fees!!

Actually, I feel like we are getting a good deal. I compared a lot of companies and Marius put Matt and I a really good package together of the animals we wanted. And offered us much flexibility.

But, you're right. It's still expensive, but a great deal cheaper per person than the elk hunt I was considering and 4 animals each instead of 1. Fortunately, I had racked up enough skymiles with my missions ministry to get our flights free.

our plans, which could change.. .Matt wants a Kudu, Wilderbeast, Impala, and warthog. I desire Zebra, oryx, a couple more of whatever I see that I like at the moment.

I think BARTFRNCS thinks you will need a canon to kill PGs. And because of that is he convinced that you will need pay trophy fees for lots of wounded animals when you use a rat gun like the 7-08
I guess he must have had lots of bad experience with rat guns himself and payed trophy fees for wounded PGs never to be found again, so either he is a crap shooter or use crap bullets or maybe both

I am sure you and your son will do well with the 7-08 rphguy
When in July are you coming to Marius?
I am staying there till July 10 and my last day of hunting will be July 9.
Maybe we will meet?
I will try to leave some decent trophies for you