DEER RIFLES IN AFRICA

Originally Posted by enysse

I think some bullet are great for providing hydrostatic shock like the Barnes Bullets. They work great especially if one is taking strong quartering to shots or shoulder shots. But if you aim for the lung area, most soft bullets will do a fantastic good killing game very fast by entering inside the rib cage and blowing the lungs into red pieces. If a animal can't breath, it can't survive. There will be a quick recovery.

Bullet placement is essential!

E, I agree but beleive it is much better to plan for the unplanned big bone hits and the follow up shots at poor angles and long distances. Those are the times when premium bullets shine. As hard as we try that first shot is not always as good as we would like.

Originally Posted by Terry Blauwkamp

For Plains Game, 99% of our Deer Rifles will work just fine. I'm not thrilled with the 243 or 25-06, but a 270 Win on up will do fine.

Just shoot what you shoot the best, as bullet placement is the key.

That pretty well sums it up.

Just so I understand most of you would shoot a Zebra from marginal angles with brush in the way with the minimum caliber that you shoot wt with?????

Most if not all the people who responded in favor of what you call "deer rifles" have emphasized the importance of appropriate shot selection.

Is your implication that by choosing what you consider an African-appropriate cartridge over a "deer" cartridge one is empowered to shoot a Zebra at a marginal angle with brush in the way? If that is the reason people choose a 378 Weatherby, I can understand why many in Africa are concerned when a client shows up with one. Perhaps that is also where the myth of the "toughness" of African animals comes from.

Shooting an animal is not so critical to my enjoyment of a hunt that I feel the need to take such shots. I'll let him walk and hunt another day.

Originally Posted by Diamondhitch

E, I agree but beleive it is much better to plan for the unplanned big bone hits and the follow up shots at poor angles and long distances. Those are the times when premium bullets shine. As hard as we try that first shot is not always as good as we would like.

I agree with this 100% If the animal moves a bit between me squeezing the trigger and bullet impact, I don't want to be SOL. Barnes for me.

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

Just so I understand most of you would shoot a Zebra from marginal angles with brush in the way with the minimum caliber that you shoot wt with?????

Looks like after 45 post, you would get what most folks are saying, maybe read the replies and then you can always start another thread on taking a poor angle shot, no matter how big a boomer you are carring. Your question has been answered I think very well on your deer rifle .
But for your lastest what if, I take the shot with the gun I brought to shoot the game I came to hunt if I had the angle I felt good with.

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

Just so I understand most of you would shoot a Zebra from marginal angles with brush in the way with the minimum caliber that you shoot wt with?????

I think most people here would not shoot a Zebra at a marginal angle with brush in the way with any caliber, to do so would be foolish.

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

Just so I understand most of you would shoot a Zebra from marginal angles with brush in the way with the minimum caliber that you shoot wt with?????

Many of the gunwriters have preformed test after test, PROVING, that there is no such thing as a brush buster. Regardless how fast, or how heavy the bullet, a single twig can deflect said bullet enough to F*!K up your shot and lead to a needless tracking process. The key to your latest question I feel falls under the subject of Ethics...

Originally Posted by 35bore

Many of the gunwriters have preformed test after test, PROVING, that there is no such thing as a brush buster. Regardless how fast, or how heavy the bullet, a single twig can deflect said bullet enough to F*!K up your shot and lead to a needless tracking process. The key to your latest question I feel falls under the subject of Ethics...

This is absolutely true! I have had several deflections, with 9.3 and .375 bullets hitting small twigs on the way to targets (animals) and not make it. After the shots, trackers have shown us the path and the things the bullet encountered on the way. I always do my best to not shoot thru brush. It still happens but I try.

While it is true that there is no brush busting cal I have to differ on your ethics charge. I have never taken a shot where I felt the bullet would be deflected BUT it has happened to me. You dont see those tiny branches in the scope. I will defer to your superior knowlage of hunting skill obviously MY hunting experiance means nothing and every shot you ever took was totaly broadside at 100 meters and with a 243 and commpleatly sucsessful.

The brush gun has been tried in Fla swamps for years, no postive results. I do not think most folks who fly 7000 miles to hunt their dream really try to make risky shots, it happens but that is my point know your own limitions before you go to the field and set your limits before the hunt not during.
I drove all the way home from New Mexico Elk hunt empty handed after passing on a poor shot chance with thick oak brush but it was a great hunt anyway, better than my buddy who wounded a nice bull and lost it after heavy snow.

So plan your hunt and hunt the plan, good luck to all

Originally Posted by sestoppelman

This is absolutely true! I have had several deflections, with 9.3 and .375 bullets hitting small twigs on the way to targets (animals) and not make it. After the shots, trackers have shown us the path and the things the bullet encountered on the way. I always do my best to not shoot thru brush. It still happens but I try.

Setup for impala using a tree as the shooting sticks, my PH and I made sure every twig in the shooting lane was broke off. The impala were in thick brush but we had this opening through which every so often the bouncing around impala would stop. There was one ram worth taking. Well sure enough he stopped in the opening but with another behind it, so we waited. When the smaller ram left, the larger one turned and moved just a bit, changing the angle of the shot. PH said shoot and I did having slightly moved the rifle to take proper aim.

The 180gr TSX from my .300WM hit a single twig on the tree I was using for a rest. It then hit a 2" thick branch sticking up from the dead tree it was attached to that was on the ground. It took about 1" out of that branch on the right side and finally ended up hitting the impala low in the paunch. We had lunch and about a 1/2 hour later took up the blood trail which was easy to follow both visually and by the stench of a gut shot animal. Fortunately the ram only went a short distance before lying down. We jumped him a couple of times before he ran out of gas and was wobbling on his hooves when I put the finishing shot into him.

Definitely some testament to the TSX as it really did some serious damage even after hitting a twig then a branch before hitting the animal. Had that impala been another few feet further away it was a clean miss. Shot distance was probably not more than 75 yards.

I think I was quite fortunate to recover that animal. We were intending to take a zebra that were with these impala, but the zebra kept in the thicker bush and behind the impala. Had this been a zebra hit that way instead of the diminutive impala, I'm not so sure we would have recovered the animal.

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

Just so I understand most of you would shoot a Zebra from marginal angles with brush in the way with the minimum caliber that you shoot wt with?????

where do you get this from? i dont think any one who has replied to your original post has said or insinuated anything remotely resembling what you have written here. as huntingbigun says in #46 that after 45 posts you would maybe get it. i appreciate you have done plenty of hunting, but you dont seem to be taking in what people who live in africa and hunt for a living , or the people who have hunted in africa a lot more than you have as clients have to say. i would start at the beginning and read all the posts here again and maybe think instead of as we say throwing your toys out of the pram, as it seems you have done in the second part of your post #50.

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

I will defer to your superior knowlage of hunting skill obviously MY hunting experiance means nothing and every shot you ever took was totaly broadside at 100 meters and with a 243 and commpleatly sucsessful.

My secret, is because i can't handle anything but a deer rifle, I throw my purse on the ground along with my knitting needles to get my game to stop at 50m so I can shoot it perfectly broadside with my .222 .

Come on man, You for real, or just like getting peoples hackles up??? Your input is just as valuable as a guy who has hunted 70 yrs.. You really don't need to throw in the snide remarks, we get it you like the 300 wm, that's fine, but we are not puss eyes because we don't. Please, take it down a notch, YOU ARE AMONGST FRIENDS...

I am not trying to be abrasive! I live in Colorado home of the biggest Elk heard in the world. You always see the new guys or out of staters with smaller caliber rifles. The truth is that many elk get wounded by these rifles limp off(Elk are TOUGH they can limp off for miles) to die a painful death. While you can kill an Elk with these smaller caliber rifles it has to be perfect conditions perfect situation and that aint going to happen very often in the mountains. My last PH said he would like to come Elk hunting with me I told him to run five miles a day with his rifle when he gets to the tree line hell know why. You can get into 30grand hunts prety easy now thats for one animal! I have several hunting guide friends in south Texas and the most experianced hunters have started useing 338 Lapua for 120lbs white tails because like Africa it bleeds you bought it, and @10 grand they want DRT performance. Just have to say this got back from a Texas Exotic hunt this week me and two freinds we shot 6 pigs me four other tow one each. One of the guys named Jedd Carried a 308 and shot his pig and sheep with 90 lbs hog 25 yards still ran 100 yards. Jedds sheep was shot at 100 yards and ran for 200 before dieing no blood trail just a lucky recovery. So in conclusion if your paying big money hell any money you really should want DRT performance. the perfect shot opptunity doesnt exist in 99.999% of hunting.

Funny you may not try to be abrasive but at least from my view you come across as a know it all, and as far as small caliber my good friend and most of his family who live in the great state of Montana for 6 generations hunt Elk every year with small caliber and gets it done, I choose to use a 300rum but that is just my liking. Each there own and I drive a ford as well.

Sorry not trying to piss in your cornflakes new on here, never been to Africa but got over 4000 post on my Southern Airboat forum. I appreciate this forum very much for the no BS and most folks try to help us Newbies.
I done with this one I just agree to disagree with your idea.

Bigun
I hope I have not personaly offended. Yes this forum is quite helpful for begginers. Sorry you infered I was a know it all, I dont. I do spend 250 days a year hunting and have a very good understanding of the subject.

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

Bigun
I hope I have not personaly offended. Yes this forum is quite helpful for begginers. Sorry you infered I was a know it all, I dont. I do spend 250 days a year hunting and have a very good understanding of the subject.

No worries, I never get offended on the internet, wish I could hunt 250 days a year, so congrats. I been hunting for a long time and it is the nature of the beast when most experienced hunters get together in person or internet. I was just kind of pointing out from a internet view how I think you come across, come to florida we kill something lol. Bet you drive a chevy too

NOPE Dodge 2500 cummins turbo diesel

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

I am not trying to be abrasive! I live in Colorado home of the biggest Elk heard in the world. You always see the new guys or out of staters with smaller caliber rifles. The truth is that many elk get wounded by these rifles limp off(Elk are TOUGH they can limp off for miles) to die a painful death. While you can kill an Elk with these smaller caliber rifles it has to be perfect conditions perfect situation and that aint going to happen very often in the mountains. My last PH said he would like to come Elk hunting with me I told him to run five miles a day with his rifle when he gets to the tree line hell know why. You can get into 30grand hunts prety easy now thats for one animal! I have several hunting guide friends in south Texas and the most experianced hunters have started useing 338 Lapua for 120lbs white tails because like Africa it bleeds you bought it, and @10 grand they want DRT performance. Just have to say this got back from a Texas Exotic hunt this week me and two freinds we shot 6 pigs me four other tow one each. One of the guys named Jedd Carried a 308 and shot his pig and sheep with 90 lbs hog 25 yards still ran 100 yards. Jedds sheep was shot at 100 yards and ran for 200 before dieing no blood trail just a lucky recovery. So in conclusion if your paying big money hell any money you really should want DRT performance. the perfect shot opptunity doesnt exist in 99.999% of hunting.

BART,

Very glad you posted, and are a member here. It is nice to see your reasoning for some of your questions/statements you have made in the past, but as with other threads already on this forum I would say there is no way I would put my 35Whelen, 375H&H or my 458wm in the hands of person who could not handle the recoil, it would make him/her flinch when the time came to make "the shot" . While I concede that you are right, shoot your quarry with as big of a gun as you can handle, but be damn sure you can handle it. In a nutshell I have met locals from CO. who have used a 270 or 30-06 for years with great results, one of the old fellas I had the pleasure of meeting shoots a CZ in 7.62x39 ( I wouldn't ) but, I also won't tell him that he shouldn't. I don't think a person should shoot a rifle they cannot handle, I would much rather see someone come to the range or in the field with a rifle they can shoot accurately than one who comes to the range and their bullets are hitting my target because they are afraid of the rifle.

Welcome to the forum. BTW guys I drive the Chevy