DEER RIFLES IN AFRICA

Gents,
Just to add another perspective to this thread, which I feel is somewhat connected to the arguments here. We all agree that premium
bullet + shot to the vital area will get you your animal. I think a very important factor that can be added here when hunting African game
is to know where the vital area is on your intended target. I know this sounds like something obvious, but it is probably the single most factor
for animals not going down immediately. Not necessarily a bad shot, but an incorrectly placed shot.
Some animals might carry a hump on the back, like the Blue Wildebeest, which distorts the hunter's judgement of the animals centreline,
causing the shot to be placed too high. (...giving the impression that they are bullet proof)
Gents, do the research on your animals before your trip. An excellent source of info would be the shot placement gallery of AH, or Dr. Kevin
Robertson's "The perfect shot" pocket guide. I carry one for my clients to keep with them for the duration of their trip.

Know your gun and its capabilities and research your quarry.

On my last Safari I hunted South Africa for a month.I met many PH's and Shot many good heads. I build rifles as a hobby. I built a 300wm for long range stuff and bought a CZ550 375. I restocked the 375 and accurizedand rebarreled the 300.Nothing on the 300 is factory except the action. I reload so I was shooting both 160 rounds a month 2x week 20 roundsper session. of all the game I took They were 1 shot propositions why because i used enough gun.

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

On my last Safari I hunted South Africa for a month.I met many PH's and Shot many good heads. I build rifles as a hobby. I built a 300wm for long range stuff and bought a CZ550 375. I restocked the 375 and accurizedand rebarreled the 300.Nothing on the 300 is factory except the action. I reload so I was shooting both 160 rounds a month 2x week 20 roundsper session. of all the game I took They were 1 shot propositions why because i used enough gun.

Sounds like we have the same hobbies, I am no way a Africa hunting expert waiting for May 8th to get here so I can join the gang, I also love to take my guns apart and make them mine and follow up with working out a sweet load. I shoot a fair amount of long rangmatch's where we start at 500 yards and I always love to see the new guys who show up with a big ole brand new gun with the latest scope and Iphone full of cools aps that will tell him everything but he cannot hit a 1000 yard target for love or money, scared of the recoil no idea of wind correction no knowledge of what his gun will do just a copy of a ballstics chart from Nosler.

So same thing elk hunting this year I brought my 280AI & 300Rum, on the days where we had long hikes into the mountains it was the 280, days for watching a meadow with limited hikes the heavy match barrel 300. The 280 was a one shot kill the same as last year it was the 300Rum, both were enough guh for the job at hand

I would have to respectfully disagree with your analysis and say it was your skill and proficient with your weapons being the major factor, enough gun was a factor but without proper shot placement enough gun would be limited asset.


Ps the charts on AH are very informative reading for the kill zones of Africa Game well done and great reading,

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

On my last Safari I hunted South Africa for a month.I met many PH's and Shot many good heads. I build rifles as a hobby. I built a 300wm for long range stuff and bought a CZ550 375. I restocked the 375 and accurizedand rebarreled the 300.Nothing on the 300 is factory except the action. I reload so I was shooting both 160 rounds a month 2x week 20 roundsper session. of all the game I took They were 1 shot propositions why because i used enough gun.

BARTFRNCS,
You could come to Africa with a .505 Gibbs. If your shot placement is wrong, you and your PH's dog are going to get to know each other better. Our animals are not bulletproof. How would you comment to the fact that about 90% of our local hunters use between 7mm and .30 cal ? If these calibres are good enough for the locals, I can pretty much say with relative ease that they will get the job done in any other situation.

Originally Posted by huntingbigun

...enough gun was a factor but without proper shot placement enough gun would be limited asset.

Wayne,

Spot on!

Given that I can shoot I'll keep using high power rounds!

Of course you are free to shoot whatever you want as long as you can handle it.
And its ok to feel a specific round are a bit light, but when the facts are that this round actually works for a lot of people, them there are not ok to bash them for using it!

Originally Posted by KMG Hunting Safaris

Wayne,

Spot on!

Marius we think too much alike, lol. Hope to meet up with you one day. I just hope I make the shot when it counts with Louis in the mean time I just keep shooting heck I may even take my deer rifle to Africa oops I forget i use the 300RUM on whitetail in Canada heaven forbid what shall I take now

wolverine, huntinbigun, and marius nicely put!

I agree.

Wildebeeste can be armour plated if your first shot isn't perfect. Much to my shame, I once shot a Wildebeeste 5 times over a 2.5 hour period with .375 H&H softs, after my first shot, a 300 yds went a bit too far back.

Worst of all, I was fly camping in the wilds of Zambia and had to give my last beers to my trackers, having put them through a tough day !

I have had more 'trouble' with Wildebeeste than any Buffalo I have shot ( 12 to date ).

They just can't keep still and are even worse if Zebra are mixed in with them.

Originally Posted by spike.t

wolverine, huntinbigun, and marius nicely put!

+1 and Nyatiboss, well put also. Your statement works verifies what everyone has been saying (which is true on any animal with a will to live) if it is a bad shot, it will not matter what the caliber, the animal will run or seem "bulletproof".

On my last hunt in South Africa CULLED 4 Impalla that were still alive after being shot with common calibers. While a well placed shot is parmount to a clean kill most people dont shoot enough. Remember its not just the hole that kills its the hydrostatic shock more energy transfer more shock.

There are other schools of thought on this business of killing power. I tend to agree Bart, having seen lots of instant kills that must be a factor of energy and shock. Others might say baloney, its trauma alone that kills other wise how could a properly placed arrow kill anything and of course we know that arrows have killed everything. The thing about arrows is that one rarely sees a DRT due to an arrow, it happens but its rare. I am not a bowhunter but have seen a lot of it on the various shows and it would appear that for the most part the animal is expected to bleed to death which can take time. Often you see these shows where they poke something with the bow in daylight and its O dark thirty before they catch up to it for pictures. Not knocking the bowhunters here so dont flame out about it, just an observation. My first two deer were killed with a quick expanding Sierra each out of a fast stepping .284 Win. Feet in the air right now. Bullets basically blew up inside the chest cavity. That would seem to be a factor of massive shock along with serious tissue disruption.

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

On my last hunt in South Africa CULLED 4 Impalla that were still alive after being shot with common calibers.

Where were they hit with the other hunters bullets?

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

While a well placed shot is parmount to a clean kill most people dont shoot enough.

Most certainly agree with this.

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

Remember its not just the hole that kills its the hydrostatic shock more energy transfer more shock.

Energy expended inside the target is preferable to a big puff of dirt behind the target in my mind.

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

Remember its not just the hole that kills its the hydrostatic shock more energy transfer more shock.

Animals or Humans, if a bullet is placed where it is suppose to be the the one receiving the bullet is dead. Cold War, assassins used a .22 pistol (and I know there were others, the .22 is just to make a point) point blank behind the ear, DEAD. A 6.5 or 7x57 between the eyes of a Cape buffalo, DEAD.

Been a while since I heard that term Hydrostatic shock, they force fed up that crap, how much hydrostatic shock can there be with head shots, force fed that to.

Originally Posted by sestoppelman

There are other schools of thought on this business of killing power. I tend to agree Bart, having seen lots of instant kills that must be a factor of energy and shock. Others might say baloney, its trauma alone that kills other wise how could a properly placed arrow kill anything and of course we know that arrows have killed everything. The thing about arrows is that one rarely sees a DRT due to an arrow, it happens but its rare. I am not a bowhunter but have seen a lot of it on the various shows and it would appear that for the most part the animal is expected to bleed to death which can take time. Often you see these shows where they poke something with the bow in daylight and its O dark thirty before they catch up to it for pictures. Not knocking the bowhunters here so dont flame out about it, just an observation. My first two deer were killed with a quick expanding Sierra each out of a fast stepping .284 Win. Feet in the air right now. Bullets basically blew up inside the chest cavity. That would seem to be a factor of massive shock along with serious tissue disruption.

I am a rifle hunter at heart but have killed quite a few critters with the bow too. My experience is that although you wont be dropping an animal in its tracks, the trail to a bow killed animal is usually shorter than with a rifle.

I did see an article awhile back on knock down power. They actually did it in africa on cull animals (for volume sake). This was done scientifically and each animal was autopsied to determine cause of death. They found that most game that hit the dirt instantly died of an anurism caused by rapid contraction (or direct impact) of the heart which caused an instantaneous spike in blood pressure. They surmised that this spike could only occur if the heart was filled to capacity and about to contract at the instant of the shot. Many different calibers were tested and there was no advantage to using a big blauser. If the animal did not die instantly then the bigger wounds (more often inflicted by bigger guns) tended to kill quicker of course.

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

On my last hunt in South Africa CULLED 4 Impalla that were still alive after being shot with common calibers. While a well placed shot is parmount to a clean kill most people dont shoot enough. Remember its not just the hole that kills its the hydrostatic shock more energy transfer more shock.

So I am confused seems like you are saying what most have already said well placed shot = clean kill, so then it is you reason for the post that can only be done with a non deer hunting rifle, whatever that is??

What calibers are in the deer rifle class you stated?

Seems kind of coinciding to me from a newbie,

Originally Posted by BARTFRNCS

I find it very interesting that people will spend 1000s on a hunt in Africa then want to bring a deer rifle!

For Plains Game, 99% of our Deer Rifles will work just fine. I'm not thrilled with the 243 or 25-06, but a 270 Win on up will do fine.

Just shoot what you shoot the best, as bullet placement is the key.

Originally Posted by Terry Blauwkamp

For Plains Game, 99% of our Deer Rifles will work just fine. I'm not thrilled with the 243 or 25-06, but a 270 Win on up will do fine.

Just shoot what you shoot the best, as bullet placement is the key.

Terry,
Your words are like poetry!

I think some bullet are great for providing hydrostatic shock like the Barnes Bullets. They work great especially if one is taking strong quartering to shots or shoulder shots. But if you aim for the lung area, most soft bullets will do a fantastic good killing game very fast by entering inside the rib cage and blowing the lungs into red pieces. If a animal can't breath, it can't survive. There will be a quick recovery.

Bullet placement is essential!