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Scope Issues - Venting!!!

This is a discussion on Scope Issues - Venting!!! within the Up To .375 forums, part of the HUNTING EQUIPMENT, FIREARMS & AMMUNITION category; I'm going to SAAM Safari training in two weeks, so I went out to do a little shooting today and ...

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    Default Scope Issues - Venting!!!

    I'm going to SAAM Safari training in two weeks, so I went out to do a little shooting today and to check the sight on my rifles. My .375 H&H shot great. And then there was the .30/06.... It wasn't even on paper!

    I ran completely out of adjustment and it is still shooting six inches to the right, although the elevation was still perfect. What tha heck???? I'm really hoping it is just something wrong with the rings and not the scope or something else.

    Normally I wouldn't be freaking, but I don't know if I will be able to get it fixed in time. ARGH!!!!!!

    Of all the times for this to happen!!!! I've had this rifle since 1982 and this happens now????

    Sigh....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Royal27 View Post
    I'm going to SAAM Safari training in two weeks, so I went out to do a little shooting today and to check the sight on my rifles. My .375 H&H shot great. And then there was the .30/06.... It wasn't even on paper!

    I ran completely out of adjustment and it is still shooting six inches to the right, although the elevation was still perfect. What tha heck???? I'm really hoping it is just something wrong with the rings and not the scope or something else.

    Normally I wouldn't be freaking, but I don't know if I will be able to get it fixed in time. ARGH!!!!!!

    Of all the times for this to happen!!!! I've had this rifle since 1982 and this happens now????

    Sigh....
    Sorry this happened to you, but trust me much better now than on safari.....trust me on that one!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHOENIX PHIL View Post
    Sorry this happened to you, but trust me much better now than on safari.....trust me on that one!
    Very true Phil!!!! I remember your issue... It does still adjust, so hoping a ring just got knocked around?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Royal27 View Post
    Very true Phil!!!! I remember your issue... It does still adjust, so hoping a ring just got knocked around?
    What kind of scope? When you say ring knocked around?? What do you mean? The usual frequent suspect is the bases coming loose, but barring that, it is likely the scopes internals have gone awry, it does happen. I had a couple scopes fail on the range a couple of years ago, one Bushnell and one Simmons. Neither art top scopes so I was not too surprised or bothered. Both makers replaced the busted ones. Check all the screws and try it again. Do you know basic bore sighting? It saves lots of ammo if you do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sestoppelman View Post
    What kind of scope? When you say ring knocked around?? What do you mean? The usual frequent suspect is the bases coming loose, but barring that, it is likely the scopes internals have gone awry, it does happen. I had a couple scopes fail on the range a couple of years ago, one Bushnell and one Simmons. Neither art top scopes so I was not too surprised or bothered. Both makers replaced the busted ones. Check all the screws and try it again. Do you know basic bore sighting? It saves lots of ammo if you do.
    It is a Leopold VX1. Only about two years old. By knocked around I really meant coming loose. I didn't word it well. I will check the bases tomorrow. I'm down at the deer lease now and don't have an Allen wrench down here. I will carry one after this though. Not knowing is driving me crazy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sestoppelman View Post
    What kind of scope? When you say ring knocked around?? What do you mean? The usual frequent suspect is the bases coming loose, but barring that, it is likely the scopes internals have gone awry, it does happen. I had a couple scopes fail on the range a couple of years ago, one Bushnell and one Simmons. Neither art top scopes so I was not too surprised or bothered. Both makers replaced the busted ones. Check all the screws and try it again. Do you know basic bore sighting? It saves lots of ammo if you do.
    Gotta go with ses on this Royal. It happens, I have one of my Zeiss scopes sitting in the garage that this scenario happened on. After checking your base/ring screws, you can do a pretty simple check.

    If you have a mechanical rest or even one of those cleaning vices, set up the rifle with a paper target say 20 yards away. You can even do this in your house and pick out something small out in the yard. Remove the bolt and look through the receiver and line up as best you can the target in the end of the barrel. Having something bright red/orange to do this on helps. Once you have it as centered as best you can with your eyeball, look through your scope. If the cross hairs are well to the left, you'll still be shooting right.

    Rather than using a tool or anything else, this is how I do my own boresighting. Seems cheesy, but once you've done it a few times you get good at it.
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    Yeah, I can handle that.

    I did try and twist the scope and it didn't move. I guess if one base is loose it wouldn't though.

    If it is bad I hope Leopold will get it to me quickly. I wouldn't even mind giving them a credit card of they would send me a replacement until they do there thing, assuming it is the scope.

    Time is the killer for me here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Royal27 View Post
    Yeah, I can handle that.

    I did try and twist the scope and it didn't move. I guess if one base is loose it wouldn't though.

    If it is bad I hope Leopold will get it to me quickly. I wouldn't even mind giving them a credit card of they would send me a replacement until they do there thing, assuming it is the scope.

    Time is the killer for me here...
    One thing Leupold is good at is getting your scope fixed and back quickly. Give them a call on Monday and explain the deal, I'd bet they'll do what they can to take care of you. This btw is a perfect excuse for having an extra back up scope for your upcoming safari!
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    I use a mailbox about 25 yds from my house and try to dial it dead on. Remember when bore sighting like this, that if you want the crosshair to move one direction, you turn the turret in the other direction. L is R and D is U. When shooting on paper of course L is L etc. I cant tell you how many times I have been at the range and watched the various once a year Nimrods bring their fine rifles and scopes to the range without having bore sighted their rifles and then spend a whole box of rounds trying to hit the backboard at 100 yds! Finally they give up and ask for help from the range master who has an actual bore sighter! One guy had just enough rounds left to go hunting when I offered to help save the rest of his ammo and bore sighted his rifle for him. Hunter sight in time at the range is usually shall we say, interesting.

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    What kind of rifle and bases are you using? Does it happen to be the Leupold Standard steel base with the coarse windage adjustment screws that are part of the base? Those are good bases, but I have seen the coarse adjustment not get set correctly and the scope runs out of internal adjustment. They make the base in both 2-piece and 1-piece like in this picture. Just a thought, good luck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunting4sanity View Post
    What kind of rifle and bases are you using? Does it happen to be the Leupold Standard steel base with the coarse windage adjustment screws that are part of the base? Those are good bases, but I have seen the coarse adjustment not get set correctly and the scope runs out of internal adjustment. They make the base in both 2-piece and 1-piece like in this picture. Just a thought, good luck!
    That is my question exactly. If you are using any of the family of bases such as above, you can get it "on paper" very quickly with a screwdriver and by bore sighting. The rear screws and front pivoting ring were designed back in the day when scopes had much narrower ranges of side-to-side movement. Initial windage adjustments (getting on paper) should be done with those screws.
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    Does the rifle still group shots well? Does the rifle have a wooden stock? Is the barrel free-floated?

    If the groups and zero went to hell then its probably something loose, coud be rings, bases, action screws or scope internals.

    If the groups are still good and it's just the zero that shifted then the likely culprits are either the coarse adjustment on an adjustable base like hunting4sanity and red leg mentioned above or warping in a wooden stock if it has one, that much of a shift would be unusual for a stock shift but not unheard of.

    Just remembered one more thing, check the muzzle crown and make sure its still in good shape and hasn't suffered any damage. This can throw shots off of a zero and surprisingly still post good groups.

    Good luck,

    John

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    My dad and I went on a hunt in West Texas. It was his turn to harvest first on this trip. He shot at a trophy ram 9 times after being dead nuts on paper before we left for Texas. His rounds were flying everywhere! To the left, to the right and God knows where else. He was too proud to use my gun and take the trophy, hence it got away. The next day we took his gun to the range. It was not on paper at 25 yards and after maxing out all adjustments it still wasn't on paper. All the rings were tight. He thought the scope was broken. We banned his gun from being used any further and used mined exclusively. He still harvested a ram, although not as large. I got mine on the 11th hour when the sun was setting. Him missing, really put all of us in a bind. But we have stories!

    When we got home he took off the scope and threw it away. I took it home with me. Come to find out, his rear ring had a hair line crack that we could not see. Every time he shot he was ever so slightly moving it around and was not hitting his point of aim. That is why no two shots were reproducible.

    He got a brand new scope because he believed his old one was cursed. He installed dual dovetail rings on a one piece base.. I got his old scope and installed it with QD Talleys. Works fine for me on my .338.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutterdoc View Post
    My dad and I went on a hunt in West Texas. It was his turn to harvest first on this trip. He shot at a trophy ram 9 times after being dead nuts on paper before we left for Texas. His rounds were flying everywhere! To the left, to the right and God knows where else. He was too proud to use my gun and take the trophy, hence it got away. The next day we took his gun to the range. It was not on paper at 25 yards and after maxing out all adjustments it still wasn't on paper. All the rings were tight. He thought the scope was broken. We banned his gun from being used any further and used mined exclusively. He still harvested a ram, although not as large. I got mine on the 11th hour when the sun was setting. Him missing, really put all of us in a bind. But we have stories!

    When we got home he took off the scope and threw it away. I took it home with me. Come to find out, his rear ring had a hair line crack that we could not see. Every time he shot he was ever so slightly moving it around and was not hitting his point of aim. That is why no two shots were reproducible.

    He got a brand new scope because he believed his old one was cursed. He installed dual dovetail rings on a one piece base.. I got his old scope and installed it with QD Talleys. Works fine for me on my .338.
    That's one way to get a free scope. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leg View Post
    That is my question exactly. If you are using any of the family of bases such as above, you can get it "on paper" very quickly with a screwdriver and by bore sighting. The rear screws and front pivoting ring were designed back in the day when scopes had much narrower ranges of side-to-side movement. Initial windage adjustments (getting on paper) should be done with those screws.
    x3 My 1st thought was rear windage screws, could also be action screws. Even if they are not loose, per say, a change of tension can cause a huge change in POI. I would retorque them, boresight and try again at the range, bang my scope up with my hand quite firmly several times from multiple angles and see if it holds.
    The journey is the reward.

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    Shot it again just now. Bases are all tight, crown looks fine, and no wood touching the barrel.

    First shot was right, then a three shot group dead on. I moved the magnification and it started shooting left. Then one off the paper (and I'm using a silloette target with a bullseye on it so it is big paper!). It is definitely moving around, but only windage, elevation stays the same.

    Could that still be something else or more likely the scope?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Royal27 View Post
    Shot it again just now. Bases are all tight, crown looks fine, and no wood touching the barrel.

    First shot was right, then a three shot group dead on. I moved the magnification and it started shooting left. Then one off the paper (and I'm using a silloette target with a bullseye on it so it is big paper!). It is definitely moving around, but only windage, elevation stays the same.

    Could that still be something else or more likely the scope?
    Is the eyepeice tight? I had fits getting a gun to group years ago only to find the eyepiece was loose and sloppy.
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    Do you have another scope you can put on the rifle temporarily for a quick test? This is the easiest way to tell if it's a scope issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondhitch View Post
    Is the eyepeice tight? I had fits getting a gun to group years ago only to find the eyepiece was loose and sloppy.
    Hitch,

    YOU'RE A GENIUS!!!!

    Since my scope doesn't have focus I never would have even thought about that!!! It was four or five turns to tighten.... Had to move it back to the right almost five inches. Shot it from 3x to 9x and in between and it looks like all is good!

    Thanks to everyone for the help! You saved me both time and stress!

    Oh, and I also now know that my .375 H&H doesn't like Hornady DGX. I get better grouping from PRVI. Doesnt matter anyway as I will hunt with a Barnes TSX. Just bought some because it is cheaper.

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    Five shot group. 20140216_130209.jpg

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