Your opinion on "canned" hunts.

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by michaelhh375, Apr 1, 2010.

  1. michaelhh375

    michaelhh375 AH Veteran

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    Dear fellow hunters.
    Whats your meaning of "canned" hunting ? IE. Size of hunting area ? 1000 HA or 100.000 HA or... Does it matter what kind of animals ? Does it matter that you can pick and chose what you want, and be guaranteed to have these animals ?
     
  2. owenowen

    owenowen AH Veteran

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    Hello Michael,

    Firstly i must say im against all canned hunts.

    "Canned" basically means something that gets squashed into a small enclosure and cant escape.

    Size is normally from 80 hectars to 300 hectars ( always much much smaller thans 900 hectars )

    Any animals can be canned but this word " canned " came out when there was a big problem issue with lions being canned in RSA. ( since then there are new laws now in SA and some are still pending in court )

    Yes from what i heard all canned hunts have a 100% success rate , lets face it its like putting someone in a small bird cage with a shotgun.
     
  3. Oliver.Wettstein

    Oliver.Wettstein AH Senior Member

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    Owen. If canned is hunting game squashed into a small enclosure then most bowhunting outfitters out there are selling canned hunts. Many bowhunting outfitters, not all and i dont want to offend anyone, are hunting in +/- 600ha areas around waterholes. These hunts are also guaranteed so are they considered canned? I personally think that canned hunting has to be decided by the hunter and he has to choose if what he is doing is canned hunting or not. Many bowhunters have not gained the skill of walking and stalking game yet (again not trying to offend anyone) and therefore they sit in blinds or tree stands and hunt from there at allocated water points, isnt this also canned huntng because one basically forces the animal to come to these water points because it is the only source of water.
     
  4. owenowen

    owenowen AH Veteran

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    Hi Oliver,

    Good point.

    600 hectars with 500 head of game on it or more for me would not be a fair chase. 1 hunter on foot and 20 blesbok on 600 hectars for me would be a fair chase.

    Yes " canned " can be chosen per hunter. For me its a no no...

    Luring and animal to feed or water is obviously "kind of cheating " but is not considered as canned hunting....as long as the property is well sized.
     
  5. Frederik

    Frederik AH Enthusiast

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    Canned hunting is a term used too widely. Unfair hunting could be more the better term I think.

    It firstly depends on the area on which the animal is hunted. In first place is it bush or an open flat area does the area have places where the animal can hide thick bush, valleys and long grass ?

    Then is the farm criscrossed with roads I have seen it on a farm or two where the hunters would see a animal run off in one direction drive around and catch him on the other side.

    Is there only one waterhole ? Animals after all have to drink water sometime and can be ambushed.

    With the correct bush and hide away places and more than one water hole available you could be looking hard to find your trophy even on a 300 hectare farm/property.

    I think if an animal can lead and live a normal life eating (natural food) drinking and socially interact with others of his species and breed the animal cannot be called canned.

    A real canned animal is an animal who is guaranteed to be shot by a hunter because its in a very small area or drugged or dropped off on the area a couple of hours before the hunt starts. That animal will still be drowsy and will not know his surroundings.
     
  6. AfricaHunting.com

    AfricaHunting.com FOUNDER AH Ambassador

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    Everyone seems to have their own definition of Canned Hunts...

    Dictionary.com
    A hunt for animals that have been raised on game ranches until they are mature enough to be killed for trophy collections.

    Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    A canned hunt is essentially a trophy hunt in which the animal is kept in a more confined area, such as in a fenced-in area, increasing the likelihood of the hunter obtaining a kill. According to the dictionary definition a canned hunt is a "hunt for animals that have been raised on game ranches until they are mature enough to be killed for trophy collections.

    About.com Animal Rights
    In a canned hunt, a hunter pays a fee in exchange for the opportunity to kill an animal with little or no chance of escape. The animal may be confined by fences, tethered, or launched into the air as the hunter stands ready to kill the animal. Canned hunting sometimes involves "trophy" animals or exotic animals, and hunters are frequently offered a money back guarantee.

    The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA)
    The canned hunt is a practice in which hunters pay fees to shoot and kill exotic animals in a confined area from which they are unable to escape.

    The Humane Society of the United States
    Canned hunting operations, also referred to as "shooting preserves" or "game ranches," are private trophy hunting facilities that offer their customers the opportunity to kill exotic and native animals that are trapped within enclosures.

    People for the Ethical Treatment (PETA)
    Most hunting occurs on private land, where laws that protect wildlife are often inapplicable or difficult to enforce. On private lands that are set up as for-profit hunting reserves or game ranches, hunters can pay to kill native and exotic species in “canned hunts.” These animals may be native to the area, raised elsewhere and brought in, or purchased from individuals who are trafficking in unwanted or surplus animals from zoos and circuses. They are hunted and killed for the sole purpose of providing hunters with a “trophy.” Animals on canned-hunting ranches are often accustomed to humans and are usually unable to escape from the enclosures that they are confined to, which range in size from just a few yards to thousands of acres. Most of these ranches operate on a “no kill, no pay” policy, so it is in owners’ best interests to ensure that clients get what they came for. Owners do this by offering guides who are familiar with animals’ locations and habits, permitting the use of dogs, and supplying “feeding stations” that lure unsuspecting animals to food while hunters lie in wait.
     
  7. michaelhh375

    michaelhh375 AH Veteran

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    Hallo fellow hunters. Acc to above from Jerome, are all fenced hunts "Canned" ?
     
  8. owenowen

    owenowen AH Veteran

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    Hello,

    I would say yes only if the animals are kept in a confined fenced area closed off by any unatural means and have no chance for a fair chase or to escape and are there purely to be killed easily.
     
  9. VonJager

    VonJager AH Senior Member

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    If there is only 1 of the species being hunted, it is a canned hunt. If the animals grossly exceed the "carrying capacity" of the property, so much that supplemental feed is required, not corn or protein, but hay or other staple food, it is a canned hunt. A fence in and of itself does not make for a canned hunt. 10 acres with a record book level animal is a canned hunt. It can be different for anyone so draw your own boundaries. I have hunted pigs in Texas on 110 fenced acres, but there was a creek, and they were nocturnal. They winded me on my first night. Nothing was guaranteed. I have hunted on 4000 fenced acres for whitetail. I saw tons of deer, and no one hunted the corners. Nothing was guaranteed and I would not have considered either canned.
    If I went to a place here in Texas for an exotic, and it was 100 or so acres and it was the only of my selected species, I would pass. Just my preference.
     
  10. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    We did a thread last year...on how big a property....has to be to be fair chase. I spent a lot of hours thinking about that thread...because it was a interesting topic.

    To each his or her own. I think of it this way, would rather see the land become another housing subdivision or industrail land site. Wetland filled in, concrete poured, etc. It think the best thing is to let the customer (hunter) determine if the property is fair chase.

    I definitely like less roads and people when I go hunting, but isn't always possible. I think habitat management and how the hunt is carried out...will determine your satisfaction in hunting any fenced property. There are always going to crooked operators...looking for the easy kill for their client. It's up to the hunter to determine the hunt outcome! Ethics and how you want to remember the hunt 20 years from now play a big part.
     
  11. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Fanatic

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    What bothers me the most is when outfitters post pictures of the specific animal you will hunt. It is done in the states with deer and elk, and seems to becoming common in Africa. Last year a guy basically auctioned a cape buffalo that was in a boma. I am sure or at least hope it was shot in a larger enclosure. We now see hunts for specific lions and elephants complete with pictures of that animal. For some reason that really turns me off.
     
  12. Intu Safaris

    Intu Safaris AH Enthusiast

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    The argument always comes up that e.g. hunting a lion in a 1000 ha camp is not canned hunting because plains game is also hunted on small areas. Here is my take on this:

    The area should provide enough space for a population or some individuals to sustain themselves AND to avoid and escape predators, in this case humans. The size of the area therefore depends on a species social behaviour, ecology etc. For example a steenbok can be hold on smaller areas whereas elephants need much larger areas. Lions e.g. have large territories and to argue that its not canned hunting to hunt them in areas that are way smaller than their natural territory has no foot to stand on.

    But I also know that hunting on small areas does happen because few large, natural and wild areas are left.
     
  13. michaelhh375

    michaelhh375 AH Veteran

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    Dear fellow hunters. Thanks for your comments. In many ways we are all thinking the same, and as Fredrik is writing, summarize it all. Another aspect is also the feeling of the persons paying for the hunt. once again, money and time, is always the issue for so many s.c "hunters. if we are very honest, its easy to see what kind of hunting DVDs that are sold most....

    wish you all the best of experiences in the African bush !
     
  14. bee keeper

    bee keeper AH Member

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    I am a complete newbie to African hunting ...
    Are there still possibilities to hunt in the wild, so not fenced ?
     
  15. Bearkat

    Bearkat AH Member

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    I live in TX but do not hunt in high fenced areas. I hunt where it is all free range. Same for our land in Mississippi. I am sure the guys hunting in high fenced ranches have fun, but it is not for me and I would not be proud of any animal, except for birds, coming out of such areas. Most of these places would not be canned hunting in my book though. However, too many guys are starting to fence in a few hundred acres and too me that is nothing more than canned hunting but I guess it is more like shooting cattle.

    A true canned hunt to me would be like the poster above who said you are guaranteed a certain animal or where an animal is let out of a cage and then shot. It happens with lions in SA and I have seen it with bison in the US. Not sure how the people that participate in these activities can be very proud of themselves and it gives real hunters a bad name.

    bee keeper - I ask this question often, and I am told most all hunting in SA is inside a fence. However, many of the places are much larger than what we see in the US. I still struggle with the idea of hunting in these areas though. I would rather hunt free range.
     
  16. mikeh416Rigby

    mikeh416Rigby AH Senior Member

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    There are many, many places in Africa to hunt areas that aren't fenced, or minimally so. Some of these countries are prohibitively expensive (for me any way). For good value hunts for plains game, and some of the big 5, you have options like Zimbabwe, South Africa, and Namibia. I've hunted in Namibia several times, and the last two times I hunted Tribal Conservancies that covered over 500,000 acres each. The outfitter/PH is Vaughan Fulton at www.fultonclassicsafaris.com.
     
  17. bee keeper

    bee keeper AH Member

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    I saw an internet site of a farm with fences of 1.20 m high and they called that unfenced, what do you guys think of that ?
     
  18. mikeh416Rigby

    mikeh416Rigby AH Senior Member

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    A fence of that height would have no impact on an animals ability to jump it. I've seen Kudu and Eland easily clear a 2m fence.
     
  19. browningbbr

    browningbbr AH Enthusiast

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    The idea of hunting a fenced property that is too small for a true, fair chase hunt is not appealing to me either. If you are considering a hunt in the RSA, check into outfitters that are part of a conservancy. This is where 2 or more landowners set up a cooperative agreement to allow hunting to occur on contiguous properties with no game fences in between. Each individual property may be smaller than you would like, but the total land area available for the game can be quite large.

    My wife and I hunted on a conservancy last year and it was more than large enough. We actually only saw the fence from a distance a couple of times in 9 days of hunting. We traveled a lot of miles and saw lots of territory in those 9 days, so we never considered the fence as a factor in any given stalk. The cattle fences between the properties were a non-factor to the game.

    - browningbbr
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2010
  20. Spiral Horn Safaris

    Spiral Horn Safaris SPONSOR AH Fanatic

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    I would still see it as a fenced property but it should not make a difference anyhow the point is here that most of the fenced properties that we hunt on today will not keep game from getting out if a Kudu does not like it there he will jump it!

    It is my opinion that people tend to stare at the whole fenced issue the wrong way if you don’t like seeing fence whilst hunting I can respect it but it makes no or very little difference in the thrill of the chase so to speak.

    Anyone who has hunted a fairly big fenced property will tell you that the game is not pinned down and it happens quite often that a certain specie just eludes you on your hunt just like on a unfenced area.

    It is more in the manner of hunting as well as the size of the property that will affect the quality of your hunt.

    Each hunt presents a challenge in itself!

    Best Regards
    Louis van Bergen
     

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