Who is required to hire a PH

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by Macs B, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. Macs B

    Macs B AH Veteran

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    I am trying to run down some facts regarding procedures for Europeans (Germans) and if they are required to hire a PH.

    This topic came up the other day. One of my fellow hunters has been to Africa several times over the years. He is convinced that his Jagdsheim (German Hunting License) will allow him to ranch hunt on private grounds and certain public areas without a hired PH. He contends that he has booked directly through German Outfitters who honor this agreement. According to him, in the areas with strong German colonial ties this is a courtesy they still extend to German citizens. Not being a German citizen I've never had the subject come up. Truthfully it sounds farfetched, but I thought I'd check into it. Has anyone heard of this, is it pure BS? If the privilege does exist what are the limitations?
     
  2. Andries

    Andries AH Member

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    This is not true for Namibia!
    Namibia got very strong ties with Germany as a old German colony, but the law are very clear on this. All foreign trophy hunters must be accompanied by a guide or PH.
     
  3. Frederik

    Frederik AH Enthusiast

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    Same goes for South Africa any foreigner must be guided by a PH. And the PH must be contracted by an outfitter this can however be the same person.

    Without the proper paperwork from the ph and outfitter the hunter will never see his trophies home, legally.
     
  4. Macs B

    Macs B AH Veteran

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    Frederick-Andries

    thanks, I've got to admit I figured it was bull, but you never know. I appreciate you setting this straight.
     
  5. billrquimby

    billrquimby AH Veteran

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    Doesn't it also depend upon whether a hunter pays the farmer?

    I have hunted a variety of antelope in three southern African countries as the guest of landowner-friends. They usually went out with me, but often they said something like "we need some meat for a braai," loaned me one of their rifles, and turned me loose with a farm worker to drive the vehicle and help me load any animals I shot.

    As for not shipping the trophies home, it doesn't bother me. There are no large southern African antelopes I don't already have mounted.

    Bill Quimby
     
  6. pinotguy

    pinotguy AH Member

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    Chasse Libre

    The only thing I've heard of that might resemble something like this would be the "chasse libre" hunts in Central and Western Africa. These are offered in Cameroon, Burkina Faso, as well as (from what I've heard) Gabon and Congo-Brazzaville. A certified PH does not have to accompany you on these kinds of hunts although trackers, skinner, porters, etc. are all available.
     
  7. AfricaHunting.com

    AfricaHunting.com FOUNDER AH Ambassador

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    Chasse Libre en Afrique / Self Guided Hunt in Africa

    pinotguy, Thank you for bringing up this very interesting type of hunt.



    Chasse Libre en Afrique / Self Guided Hunt in Africa

    "Chasse Libre" is a French term that if translated directly would be "freedom hunt", which essentially means self guided hunt. "Chasse Libre" can found in some former French colonies in Africa, it is a system put in place so that someone can apply for and receive permission to hunt legally in a country without the use of a professional hunter or hunting guide.

    The chance to do a "Chasse Libre" offers hunters a true taste of Africa. These unguided or self guided hunts are still allowed today in designated hunting areas of some French speaking countries such as Central African Republic (Republique Centrafricaine), Cameroon (Republique du Cameroun), Congo (Republique du Congo), Burkina Faso (Burkina Faso), Gabon (Republique Gabonaise) as well as others. Hunting in Gabon and Congo is possible however you will not be able to export any trophies from either of these two countries which may make it less appealing to some hunters.

    [​IMG]
    Picture by Christophe Morio - Camp Volant - Movable Tent Camp in CAR

    Self guided hunts on foot are true classic hunting safaris using "Camp Volant" (movable tent camps) and are certainly not for the inexperienced African hunter. The language barrier may pose a challenge right from the start in the planning stages which requires lots of organization and much attention to detail.

    The upside of choosing to do a "Chasse Libre" is that the cost of such a hunt is usually quite inexpensive in comparison to the cost of a typical guided hunt for the same species and it can be an incredibly rewarding experience for the adventurous hunter.

    The possible drawbacks can be that these hunts are only for the very experienced outdoorsman and can be very dangerous, physically demanding, in remote areas and require lots of planning, logistical preparation and organization.

    It is best that two hunters go together as partners since you are basically on your own with the team of trackers and porters that you hire. You will be responsible for your own welfare, as well as that of your team. It is essential to allow for plenty of time on a self guided hunt, 14 days is usually a good place to start. Keep the number of animals and species you wish to hunt realistic.

    If you are purely looking at doing this type of hunt for cost savings or as a trophy hunting safari you will probably be disappointed. On the other hand if your desire is to have a truly unique and adventuresome experience that includes hunting in Africa and all that it entails, then this type of hunting safari may be exactly what you have been looking for.
     
  8. Frederik

    Frederik AH Enthusiast

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    Bill, I'm not 100% sure about other countries except South Africa, yes I suppose you can hunt that way if you don’t mind the trophies not being shipped. But it is still the law that you must be accompanied by a ph. For instance if you would end up in an accident and hurt yourself or by accident get someone else injured the farmer would be in a lot of deeeeep "Sh#t".

    You never know what could happen you could be off with the farm worker driving to another property which is owned by the same farmer. And there is a road block setup by Nature conservation. Firstly you are driving illegally with a firearm and you will have to do a lot of explaining and it could be worse you are driving back to the house with a dead animal on the back of the bakkie.

    The end result, you will be arrested as a poacher and in possesion of an illegal firearm. I know this is far fetched but it could happen and except for your trouble all that trouble will trickel back to your host as well.

    Oh and BTW with the rifles if you dont have a invitation letter from the Outfitter you would not get your rifles in anyway and yes you can loan the farmers rifle as you said.
     
  9. safari hunter

    safari hunter AH Veteran

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    Chasse Libre Cameroon & Burkina Faso

    The “Chasse Libre” project in Cameroon helps in the marketing of wildlife products, which helps local people to feel real ownership and so responsibility. The CAMNARES project (Cameroon Natural Resources) organizes self guided hunts in community hunting areas of Cameroon mainly on bongo. A similar project is running in Burkina Faso, though they took the multiple resource approach using both animal and plant resources.
     
  10. billrquimby

    billrquimby AH Veteran

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    Frederick:

    I stopped taking my own rifles out of country long ago. Sightseeing has become more important to me than shooting, and lugging a rifle that will be used for only a couple of shots is a pain.

    Everywhere I've gone in the past ten years the friends I visited felt I needed to shoot something and loaned me one of their rifles. I've never left their main properties without them, though.

    Thanks for the heads up. If I return to South Africa, I'll be certain the landowner accompanies me.

    Incidentally, how long has this requirement been law? Was it included in the grand set of firearms laws RSA passed a few years ago?

    I'm pretty sure I've been legal when hunting by myself with a borrowed rifle on a friend's private land in Botswana's Tuli Block. Uncertain about the other country.

    Bill Quimby
     
  11. Ray Atkinson

    Ray Atkinson AH Enthusiast

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    You must have a license to hunt in any African country..even on private land and I am sure this does not always happen with friends in So. Africa on private ranches but your friend is illegal...You must be able to show proof of ownership when entering or leaving an African country. This can be done with a US Customs form 4457 as it is accepted by African customs even though it is only a from stating that you owned the rifle when you left the USA and don't have to pay an import fee when re entering the country..

    You may use the PHs rifle or the "camp rifle" as is the usual term and that is legal in every respect. You must have a hunting license to hunt in Africa and to export animal parts.
     
  12. billrquimby

    billrquimby AH Veteran

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    Ray:

    Are you certain that hunting licenses are needed if a foreigner is NOT "trophy hunting," and is on private land collecting meat for the landowner from the landowner's private herds and no animal parts will be exported? As for form 4457 and firearms permits, I don't need them because I stopped taking firearms to Africa years ago.

    Bill Quimby
     
  13. Kowas Hunting Safaris

    Kowas Hunting Safaris AH Veteran

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    In Namibia an international client are not allowed to hunt (trophies or meat) without the presence of a qualified and registered hunting guide, professional hunter or master hunting guide accompanied the client during the time of the hunt.

    So many roamers going around... If you are uncertain about the facts, do not hesitate to contact the TROPHY HUNTING ASSOCIATION of that specific country. They will inform you accordingly about the correct facts.

    With communication mediums where every one could air their view (irrespective of true facts) it is esential to obtain the correct information at the right places.

    Your source is essential. If you hesitate, clarify information with JEROME PHILLIPE!
     
  14. Baobab

    Baobab AH Veteran

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    Thanks Danie
    Please take Danies word. He is well informed.
    There are a great deal of german hunters who do this and many farm owners who allow it.
    It is illegal! If some thing happens it is unthinkable what can happen. Just as a matter of intrest how many have gone out with out a qualified PH, just one of the farm workers?
     
  15. CT Safaris

    CT Safaris AH Enthusiast

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    According to the Limpopo Ordinance on Nature Conservation (12 of 1983) the definition of a "client" is a person who does not normally reside in South Africa and who pays someone to hunt (or in connection with a hunt) in South Africa... The Ordinance further states that a "client" may only conduct a hunt in South Africa if such a hunt was arranged by a Hunting Outfitter and if he is accompanied by a Professional Hunter...

    What is of importance in the above regard is that a foreigner is only considered to be a "client" by definition of the law IF he pays someone to hunt wild game in South Africa. This implies that if there is no remuneration in lieu of the hunt (e.g. he is invited by a landowner to hunt for free) he is technically not a client by the definition of the law and there is nothing that prevents him from hunting without being accompanied by a Professional Hunter on privately owned land - provided 1) he is in posession of written permission from the landowner to hunt and 2) he is - where required - in posession of a hunting license / permit for the specific animals that he is hunting.

    So in theory, it can actually be legal for a foreigner to hunt unaccompanied in South Africa...
     
  16. Bobpuckett

    Bobpuckett GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    This is a good question, now I have one dose any of these country's that allow self guided hunts have Giant Forest Hogs? I want one but $30,000+++ is a little high for a hog.
     

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