WHEN DO YOU CALL THE HUNT IS OVER?

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by nieluyssafaris, May 5, 2012.

  1. nieluyssafaris

    nieluyssafaris AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    42
    Member of:
    ABO (African Bow Hunting Organization)(Bow Hunting Instructor for ABO)
    Hunted:
    South Africa and Mozambique
    Because of the thread posted by Rohan ( Bow Hunting DG ) I thought that this might be an interesting topic.

    When do you think the PH should make the call to take a wounded animal out of his misery after a client made a bad shot with a rifle or a bow?

    After the clients second or third or fifth attempt?:think:
     
  2. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,898
    Likes Received:
    104
    My Photos:
    131
    Member of:
    sci int, basc
    Hunted:
    zambia, tanzania, zimbabwe, hungary, france, england
    niel i dont know anything about bow hunting apart from what i have read on here, but i would say that if the client cant get into a satisfactory position to place even the second arrow successfully, within a reasonable time during the follow up i would say the ph should take the shot. with a client hunting with a rifle it is going to be easier to get him into a position for a follow up shot, simply due to the greater range etc provided by the rifle. however if the client messes up due to pressure or some other reason then i think the ph has to make the call. its a difficult scenario for any ph to have to make a decision in, as there is a good chance it might cause friction. also there are phs who are fantastic shots but i have seen some who are no better than any one else, just because you get a ph licence doesnt make the person a super shot. :)
     
  3. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    20
    Hunted:
    South Africa (Limpopo, Free-State, North West, Northern Cape) and Botswana (Tuli Area; Selebi-Pikwe, and Tsabong regions)
    In my opinion, the PH should take over when it is 100% clear that the client is not in a physical position(either within range or standing position) to take the final shot, or if it turns out that the client does not have the capibility to shoot straight under the pressure of following up a wounded animal. When the animal is suffering and the client is not executing the shot/s with precision etc. The client's needs come first as he or she is paying a great deal for the safari experience and ultimately for the trophy at hand, but if the animal starts to suffer after the initial shot and where a finishing-off shot is presented but is not placed successfully by the client, then the PH should step in. It goes without saying each situation is different and subject to the discernment of the experienced PH/Outfitter.

    I hope a few Clients and Outfitters can give their opinion on this thread.
     
  4. Diamondhitch

    Diamondhitch AH Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,322
    Likes Received:
    9
    My Photos:
    67
    Member of:
    SCI
    Hunted:
    Canada (AB, SK, NWT, BC) USA (NM, TX) South Africa (Limpopo, KZN, Free State, Eastern Cape, Northen Cape), Kyrgyzstan
    First of all, before they even leave the lodge the ground rules should be clear.

    The PH WILL shoot the animal if
    1) Anyones life is or appears will iminently be in danger.
    2) If the animal is likely to escape and be unrecoverable.
    3) If the animal is experiencing undue suffering due to any factors limiting the ability of the archer to kill the animal in a reasonable amount of time.
    This leaves alot to the descression of the PH and as such he must act responsibly for the sake of both the hunter and the hunted (this is what we pay them for anyway). The PHs decision to shoot would be final and non-negotiable but the PH would make every effort to assist the archer to complete the kill as specified above.
     
  5. detutt

    detutt AH Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Member of:
    SCI-NRA-OVIS-FNAWS
    Hunted:
    Zim-SA-Mozambique-Namibia-Zambia-Tanzania-Cameron-Ethiopia-CAR
    The PH's JOB is to make sure you have a safe and enjoyable hunt Period! And his job also is to make sure you don't get hurt. And then finally to try and recover every animal that gets hit. Let him do his job at his descresion and you BOTH will have a great time!
     
  6. nieluyssafaris

    nieluyssafaris AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    42
    Member of:
    ABO (African Bow Hunting Organization)(Bow Hunting Instructor for ABO)
    Hunted:
    South Africa and Mozambique
    Spike.t, Diamondhitch, Rohan and Debutt.

    Thank you for your inputs on this sensitive subject, I know it might open up a can of worms butt still I think it needs to be discussed. We as hunters are being watched with eagle eyes by green organizations. And video clips like Rohan was referring to gives them a lot of ammunition against us hunters.

    To protect what we love and live for we need to focus on our actions!

    In my opinion as a Ph and outfitter the client should always be informed of what the next step will be in the case of a wounded animal. If the opportunity arises for the client to take a second shot on the wounded animal let him do so. On the end of the day he is paying for the animal and the experience of the hunt. We are all human and mistakes happen. I am not a believer of shooting with the client or after him like some cowboys do, but what I believe in is to keep the hunt clean in respect of the animal without taking anything away from the clients experience.

    If decisions like this can't be made between the client and the ph you end up with video clips Rohan was referring to whether it was with a rifle or a bow. I showed proof of a Cape Buffalo that's killed with one arrow. On the other hand Mark Sullivan's Black Death video showed five or more shots with a 500 Nitro on Cape buffalo.:mad:

    Just my two cent's.
     
  7. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,898
    Likes Received:
    104
    My Photos:
    131
    Member of:
    sci int, basc
    Hunted:
    zambia, tanzania, zimbabwe, hungary, france, england
    sounds good niel.
     
  8. James.Grage

    James.Grage GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,573
    Likes Received:
    41
    My Photos:
    73
    Member of:
    NRA, ATA, PITA, NAHC, NAFC, DU, TU, DSC, SCI, RMEF
    Hunted:
    USA - Canada -Tanzania, South Africa, Zimbabwe
    Here is my play on this.

    All hunters have pride in thinking that they can make the shot. Everyone has Oops days where the shot is not just right. Sometimes this turns into an all day tracking sessions for the hunter to make the kill... I do not think that that is right, Action need to be taken early and swift by the PH.

    If the animal is hit and runs it is fair game, for the PH to assist.

    The object is for a swift Kill.

    Most PH's are aware if you have made a good shot or not.

    Just to let an animal continue to move off, time after time is uncalled for by the hunter and PH.

    As for distance traveled that is a call by the PH. As my last safari went an Impala shot through the heart went in excess of 500 yards. It just did not know it was dead. My PH took my rifle and went sprinting after the animal after we saw it take flight. We both thought I had made a good hit we just were not sure after the long flight through heavy brush.

    Bow hunters need to be able to go with the PH recommendations in letting the PH dispatch a wounded animal. Distance is everything in making a move to get a clear shot at a wounded animal.
     
  9. Stretch

    Stretch AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    15
    Hunted:
    USA , Canada, Botswana
    There is no question that archery equipment is more than adequate to kill any animal with one shot to the vitals, no matter what the size of the animal. Blood carries oxygen to the vitals. A broad-head cuts causing severe blood loss, which in turn deprives an animal of this oxygen. Death is swift and normally painless. Oxygen loss causes a sleepy state which results in unconsciousness, then death. Very effective and very definitive. This has been proven over and over again. A poor shot no matter what the weapon is a different situation and should be handled as such.

    There is always going to be self-centered egotistical individuals that make responsible hunters look bad. That fact of the matter is that most hunters are ethical and will act accordingly to dispatch the animal in a timely manner. We cannot control the actions of others only ourselves. The fact is the vast majority of bowhunters are extremely well groomed when it comes to hunting/shooting skills. Archery is a choice one makes mainly because of it's challenge. That being said, when an archer decides to pursue dangerous game he/she goes into it as well prepared as possible. The PH needs to be prepared as well. If the PH does not understand bowhunting then he should not be guiding archers in the first place. Communication between the PH is necessary prior to the hunt to be sure both the are on the same page. Ultimately the decision has to be in the best interest and respect for the animal.

    My thoughts are the PH should make the call. If time allows, and if possible, the PH could hand the rifle over to the client so he/she could make the final shot.
     
  10. nieluyssafaris

    nieluyssafaris AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    42
    Member of:
    ABO (African Bow Hunting Organization)(Bow Hunting Instructor for ABO)
    Hunted:
    South Africa and Mozambique
    :agree:
     
  11. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    5,928
    Likes Received:
    106
    My Photos:
    32
    Member of:
    Northeast Wisconsin SCI chapter, Lifetime member of NRA,RMEF
    Hunted:
    Namibia, South Africa (East Cape, Guateng and Limpopo)
    I think the situation requires a talk before the hunt is booked or before the the hunting begins. I think every hunter should have the opportunity to put a animal down as quickly as possible. But if the arrow was shot in the guts of the animal, the animal way may vary well escape and not be found. Vitals organs have to be hit to ensure a clean kill. And even a hit to just one lung or a liver can mean a stalking job. Once you have shot a animal is shot every effort should be made to recover the animal. And a PH is there to make sure you have a successful hunt. I think a animal should be recovered as soon as possible and we should not stretch the agony of death out.
     
  12. nieluyssafaris

    nieluyssafaris AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Photos:
    42
    Member of:
    ABO (African Bow Hunting Organization)(Bow Hunting Instructor for ABO)
    Hunted:
    South Africa and Mozambique
    :beer: I totaly agree with you Enysse!
     

Share This Page