What cartridge have you thought about the most, but never owned a rifle in it?

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by trigger creep, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. converse320

    converse320 AH Member

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    Well I still can't get the .460 Short A Square out of my head, even though I ended up ordering a Lott on grounds of practicality. I even have the reloading dies and brass for it, and it looks such a fantastically well designed case. And ironically, you can actually get brass for this cartridge in the UK. Lott brass is currently much harder to find.
  2. PAoutlaw

    PAoutlaw AH Member

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    The one that I will probably never own is the 8mm Remington Mag. And a original Siamese Mauser chambered for 45-70. I have guns to cover everything that moves in North America, but these two still haunt me in my sleep! I even have the dies and cases for the 8mm!! Maybe one day after I get the guns that I need for Africa!
  3. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    You are missing out on a good thing! Better buy a 8mm Rem Mag (lol). I won a 325 WSM....which is essentially a 8mm Rem Mag and really like it!
  4. trigger creep

    trigger creep AH Enthusiast

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    I don't think I'll ever buy one of the 8MM mags, but an 8MM-08 or 8MM-06 would be nice. I would probably get a Ruger M77 rebarreled, as I love that particular rifle. I would probably handload some 200 grain Nosler ballistic tips for deer and maybe Nosler partitions for the bigger stuff. That would be a very effective big game cartridge, and it would satisfy my wish for a wildcat/obscure cartridge.
  5. Kiwi505

    Kiwi505 AH Veteran

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    In that case you might as well go for a 8mm Mauser (8x57) and you will be able to use factory loaded rounds in a pinch.
  6. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    The original 8x57 is a fine cartridge and nearly the equal of our own '06. I have a 98K Mauser that I put a scout type scope on and it shoots MOA all day long. No game animal could tell whether it was hit by an 8x57 or 30-06 given equal qualitly bullets of similar weight, velocity and proper placement of same. And as Kiwi points out, factory loads are usually available where wildcat rounds aren't.
  7. 505ED

    505ED AH Veteran

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    7.5x55 swiss, 6.5-284--that may change soon,6x45, or 6x47 either one--I'd think would be cool

    Ed
  8. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    The Swiss is a really fine round and even in the K31 service rifle shoots very well with their ball ammo. I load for mine and get MOA groups. Too bad it has never found favor enough to find its way into some good American rifles. One of the few rifles other than military to ever chamber it is the Steyr model M and they are rare.
  9. trigger creep

    trigger creep AH Enthusiast

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    I have already owned an 8X57 and it is a fine cartrdige, but I want something with a little more punch. In order to get velocities over 2500 fps with a 196 grain bullet, you have to buy Norma ammo. I am concerned with the high pressures that Norma ammo operates at, and wouldn't cherish the isea of using it. I have seen cases rupture on other people at the local range, I'm wary of high pressures. I would rather get an 8MM-06 and load it to normal velocities and avoid the pressure issues of overloads.

    Besides, I'm not hostile to the idea of reloading. My dad reloads quite a bit, and if I didn't want too do the loading, I'm sure he would. Now this is all futuristic planning, as I'm only a little over 14 years old. But it won't be long until these plans become reality, as itm won't be long before I'll be working. Time flies, it won't be long.
  10. karibu

    karibu AH Member

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    I would like to buy a barrel in 458 lott for my Christensen.
  11. Code4

    Code4 AH Enthusiast

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    .333 Jeffrey. Can be made from a very slightly lengthened .30-06 action with opened bolt face and new magazine box. A few of us on another forum are looking at getting some made.


    I've bought or had built all my other dream calibres.
    .218Bee
    .220Swift. Sold it, damn it :(
    250-3000
    7x57
    9.3x62
    .416 Rigby

    There is something about a .333 dia 300 grain Woodleigh with an SD of .386 that makes my nipples hard.
  12. PAoutlaw

    PAoutlaw AH Member

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    Christian, Any time you have to buy Norma ammo for a metric caliber rifle, that is not a bad thing! The 8x57 has been alive and well in Europe, according to my sources, and Norma has been loading for it for years. I have used the same rounds for my 8x57 without problems, my father bought .308 ammo in the mid to early 60's for his savage 99 and used it with no problems. Ammo manufacturers have to adhere to the same specs worldwide and if you check the specs you will find that they are within the range for the rifle in question. The time that one must worry is when using reloads that someone cooks up without consulting the reloading manuals, that is why all manuals list starting loads and maximum loads and warn you not to exceed the maximum loads. As someone who was in the same place where you are not that many yrs ago (young and just getting into the fun of reloading and shooting) read all the reloading manuals that you can get your hands on, they will be a wealth of information to you.
  13. trigger creep

    trigger creep AH Enthusiast

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    Norma ammo is still not within SAAMI specifications and therefore I don't want to use it. Your father, luckily, never had a pierced primer because if he would've he would've been in for a world of hurt. The Savage 99 is not designed to handle the pressures that Norma ammo operates at, as not only is it a lever action it also has a poor gas escape system. If your dad would've had a pierced primer in that Savage 99, he could've went blind if he didn't have eye protection on. That is why you should always have either eyeglasses or shooting glasses on, to protect you in case of a pierced primer or case rupture.


    What most people don't understand is that hot days spike pressures considerably. On a 100 degrees Fahrenheit (which in my part of Pennsylvania is very possible) you're far more likely to have a case rupture or pierced primer than on a 60 degree day. On the day that I witnessed 2 (not just one but two) case ruptures it was a 95 degree day and very, very humid. The shooter showed me the two cases and showed me that it had burnt the hair of his face and you could see the little black specks all over his face. Ever since then I've had the heebie jeebies of high pressures.
  14. PAoutlaw

    PAoutlaw AH Member

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    Christian, Not to start an argument here, but I am speaking from roughly 100 yrs reloading experience. First on your comments on the Savage 99, This action was the strongest lever action built. It was built to handle much higher pressure cartridges than any other rifle of its day, maybe with the exception of the 1895 winchester in the 30-03 and then the 30-06. So yes the 99 is only a lever action, but it is more than strong enough to handle any factory loaded round or any hand loads that are loaded in the specifications set forth in reloading manuals. If it wasn't do you think the rifle would have lasted as a production gun from 1899 until Savage discontinued it in the early 1980's (actually from pre 1899 because the original design of this action came out a few yrs earlier). Now on to the pressure issue, I know the weather you speak of, I dont live that much north of you that we dont have hot days, and both my brother and I both spent hotter days in much hotter climates than we see in this part of the state. Now I would hate to have to sit and figure out how many thousands of rounds were loaded and fired by my family since the early 1930(?), and we have never had a pierced primer, a primer that has been cratered by high pressure, or any other signs of high pressures. Not to say that we are conservative with our loads either, as many of the rifles we load for are at max loads according to our manuals. So to blame a manufacturer for 2 incidents when they load hundreds of million rounds a yr, I would have to ask, was the ammo reloaded norma brass, was it the right ammo for the rifle ( I have seen this too many times to say it doesnt happen), If it was reloaded was it reloaded properly and ALL steps followed as they should be or was someone careless and rushed thru and forgot something. As far as the pressure "spikes" that you speak of, what your saying is that if you work up a load for a given rifle in Feb. in a temp of 20 F and you shoot that given load in the summer at 80 F then you will have a dangerous load in your gun because your pressures will be too high. Then, for example if the army loads ammo for the troops up in Wisconsin in the winter and then ships it out to the soldiers in Iraq or Afganistan in July, That ammo is unsafe to use because it could cause the weapon system to malfunction, Right? Yes temp does change pressures but not to the degree that you are telling about. If the primers ruptured, was there any other signs of high pressure, i.e. ejector marks, loose primers ( did they drop out or the primer pockets), flattened primers, or an action that is hard to open or completely stuck closed? Did the rounds go off as expected or did they hang a bit? if they hung a bit my guess would be that something possibly was blocking the flash holes causing pressure build up there ( yes that is a step to reloading, clean and inspect the flash hole). If they went off as expected and the primers ruptured and everything else was up to snuff, then how about the rifle? How old is it and what condition is it in? I've seen worn out firing pins that cause light cratering in primers, easily confused with a high pressure sign, I've also seen rifles with firing pins that were homemade (drill bits placed in to replace broken firing pins), and I've also seen firing pins that were "touched-up" by a "basement gunsmith" and actually sharpened to a point because it was thought that that would help the primer go off when actually the spring was replaced with too soft of one. So you see, before someone claims that one type of ammo is dangerous to use, you must rule out a lot of variables that could cause similar types of malfunctions. And when you compare all the rounds loaded and fired that started their life in one companies plant with just 2 incidents, sometimes its not the ammo but operator headspace and timing. And if you have any questions about it, just ask I can answer just about any question you have about reloading because if I dont know it I'll find it in one of my manuals, because my idea of "light reading" is reloading manuals and firearms books! Enjoy this fine sport and never stop learning, but only believe 1/3 of what you hear and 1/2 of what you see and question everything because the more you learn the better equipped you are! PAoutlaw
  15. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    PAoutlaw, Well put...
  16. 6MM

    6MM AH Veteran

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    It will actually go farther on P-Dogs.
  17. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Its been very popular on the HighPower match circuit for years, fine round, very accurate.
  18. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Fanatic

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    Christian,

    Ammo makers worldwide do not adhere to the same specification. In the US SAAMI specs are used. In Europe CIP specs are used. You are correct that Norma does not use SAAMI specifications. They use CIP standards which I believe are tougher. For instance the temperature that Norma tests their rounds is 100 Celcius which 212 F. SAAMI only requires 60 to 80 F.

    I have shot and chrono'd Norma ammo in the past. My biggest complaint is the low velocity. I was told this was done to stay within CIP specifications.

    Have YOU actually bought, shot and chrono'd 8 by 57 ammo from Norma that was over-pressured?
  19. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Fanatic

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    I stand corrected in regards to the 8 by 57.

    The SAAMI (voluntary) pressure limitation for the 8x57mm IS cartridge is Piezo SAAMI Pmax = 241.317 MPa (35,000 psi) or 37,500 CUP.[12] This is considerably lower than the C.I.P. pressure limit and is done for liability reasons, in case the 8x57mm IS cartridge is fired in an 'I' bore rifle that has a narrower throat and barrel diameter, to avoid catastrophic firearm failures that could endanger users or bystanders. European ammunition manufacturers generally only load to the lower pressure limit for "I" bore cartridges

    With a 200 grain bullet the pressure is around 45,000CUP at 2500FPS which is more than safe in any modern firearm with the correct chamber and bore diameter.
  20. bwanawannabe

    bwanawannabe AH Senior Member

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    A cartridge that I have always wanted a rifle chambered in is the .308 warbird. I know that Lazzeroni specs aren't always what shooters achieve with their own ammo, as well as being difficult to find anywhere, but the balistics scream mountain rifle.

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