What bullets can't be shot in a double

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by Hunt101, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. Hunt101

    Hunt101 AH Member

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    OK, I'm trying to understand if there are bullets out there that can harm the regulation of a double. I have a Heym 88B in 375 H&H and I was looking at the Barnes TSX in 350 grain for an upcoming Buffalo and Hippo hunt. I have read before possibly some inaccurate information that said only use lead core bullets in a double. Please help explain if this is current information based on doubles built today.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Hunt101

    Hunt101 AH Member

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  3. James.Grage

    James.Grage GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Usually your double rife is regulated at the factory for a brand of ammo... like Hornady or Federal expanding and solids.

    Your double rifle should have come with a target and the ammo that it was regulated for.
    If you did not receive that information Heym will be able to look up there records and send you that information.

    Just provide the serial number and model.
     
  4. Hunt101

    Hunt101 AH Member

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    I have that info, but would also like to look at other bullets as well. Also I don't know how to convert the weight to grains but the factory supplied target is shot with Norma TXP Geschobgewicht 19,4. Appears TXP is a swift A Frame but what grain is that, anyone know the conversion?

    Thanks
     
  5. James.Grage

    James.Grage GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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  6. Hunt101

    Hunt101 AH Member

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    Thank you sir, that answers one questions in the quest for accuracy.
     
  7. AkMike

    AkMike AH Fanatic

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    When Barnes first started doing mono-metal bullets there were barrels separate from the ribs and also OSR showing up on the outside of the pipes. (OSR+ Outside Rifling) This is a very hard to see situation that is un measurable but visible there the rifling appears to be pressed from the inside of the thin pipes to the outside. I personally know a very respected man that has seen this.

    With the newer flavors of Barnes that have relief bands cut in them the problem seems to have gone away. None of the other mono-metal bullets have caused this problem.
    Searcy and others have said that their rifles will not have problems with this.
     
  8. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    yup mike i also know someone in the buisiness who has seen this .
     
  9. Doubleriflejack

    Doubleriflejack AH Senior Member

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    To duplicate factory regulation, Doubles should be shot with bullets same as, or with same profile, and especially same weight as was used in the original factory regulation of that given double, and shot at same, or reasonably close to same velocity as shot when rifle was originally regulated. Using the .375 mag. as an example, some doubles were regulated to shoot, to regulation, bullets of 270 grain, and other rifles were regulated to shoot to regulation bullets of 300 grain (both weights were loaded by cartridge makers, for this caliber). Some doubles will shoot both weights equally well, but not all doubles will do this, in this caliber. If you wish to shoot bullets with different profile than rifle was originally regulated for, or possibly somewhat different weight, you must try them to see what performance you get---sometimes they will shoot to regulation well; sometimes they will not, depending on the given rifle, the different bullet profile, the different weight.

    Concerning shooting mono-metal bullets, there were barrels separated from the ribs and also rifling "tracks" showing up on the outside of the barrels, but I think that was rare, and seen only on old vintage softer steel barrels. With modern alloy steel barrels, and with more refined modern mono-metal and steel jacketed bullets, it isn't a problem any more. However, they certainly have to be harder on any and all barrel steel rifling, including the most modern steel ones, than softer lead bullets with copper alloy jackets on same barrels would be. Shooting a few such mono bullets should not be much of a problem, but shooting a lot of them is bound to wear out a barrel faster than if only lead copper jacketed bullets were used, so the shooter must decide what he wants to use, and how often he wants to use them. Don't take my word for any of this, ask Heym, the rifle maker their opinion of shooting mono or steel jacketed bullets, and if they would be somewhat harder on the barrels than if softer lead/copper alloy jackets were used instead.
     
  10. AkMike

    AkMike AH Fanatic

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    I have some mono's on the shelf that I intend to try in my Searcy 450NE and the Chapuis 9.3X74R.
    These are the CEB's and North Forks not the new Barnes. Both of these designs have many relief bands to allow the displaced metal from the rifling to move back and not stress the barrels.

    I won't even attempt to use these on my older rifles with softer metal or the Damascus ones.
    There are many conventional premium cup and core bullets that will be fine in these classics.
     
  11. AkMike

    AkMike AH Fanatic

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    Your rifle was set or regulated for a specific load and bullet weight. Is that what the factory used to regulate it?

    350 grn is very heavy for a 375H&H IMO. Off the top of my head I recall that 270 to 300 grns is a more normal weight for this caliber.
     
  12. Hunt101

    Hunt101 AH Member

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    After a little studying I know my gun was factory regulated for 300 swift a bullets, but what I'm inquiring about is if Barnes bullets are safe to use. A 300 grain may work for most applications but might not be ideal for all so I want experiment with a few different options. The Barnes 350 grain is very interesting to me, but I was unsure on using a non-lead core bullet after a few reviews I read. Thanks for all the help.
     
  13. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    Don't under estimate the effectiveness of CEB's and NorthFork bullets. They should work. Those bullet are made to operate under lower pressure to the barrels.
     
  14. AkMike

    AkMike AH Fanatic

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    The Barnes with the relief cuts should be fine to use. Before you try to hotrod the 350's, get a good load going with the 300's.
     
  15. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    I think that is solid advice!
     
  16. Red Leg

    Red Leg GOLD SUPPORTER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    I too had heard the tales about the Barnes solids, but have found no one that actually observed it. I also have a couple of respected friends who write extensively on vintage doubles and neither believe there was a bullet issue. After all, the "solid" - both lead core (many of which were STEEL jacketed) and homogeneous metal - were staple rounds for doubles since the last of the 19th century. What was the more likely culprit - particularly with respect to barrels and ribs shooting loose - were the uninformed trying to fire nitro loads in black powder express guns. Such guns turn up every year. It is a tribute to their original construction that they don't seem to turn into pipe bombs, but tend to simply come apart.
     
  17. Hunt101

    Hunt101 AH Member

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    I've already found a 350 grain load that my double regulates beautifully the woodleigh SN RN so now I have to just focus on a plains game load that could be used out to 300 yards. If my gun hasn't shot the 350 grain loads so well I wouldn't have been so concerned on having that big of a bullet but since it likes them why not. So now I was looking hard at the Barnes bullet selection for possible options, my PH has said some plains game might be taken out to 300 yards. I think after hearing the responses I wouldn't worry about using the Barnes but believe I will start with the swift a bullets first. Thanks for the help
     
  18. AkMike

    AkMike AH Fanatic

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    Actually Red Leg, some of the OSR ones were new Chapuis rifles.

    But the problem seems to have gone away AFTER Barnes stopped selling the slab sided bullets and put the grooves in.
     
  19. Doubleriflejack

    Doubleriflejack AH Senior Member

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    Red Leg: "I too had heard the tales about the Barnes solids, but have found no one that actually observed it. I also have a couple of respected friends who write extensively on vintage doubles and neither believe there was a bullet issue. After all, the "solid" - both lead core (many of which were STEEL jacketed) and homogeneous metal - were staple rounds for doubles since the last of the 19th century. What was the more likely culprit - particularly with respect to barrels and ribs shooting loose - were the uninformed trying to fire nitro loads in black powder express guns."
    _______________________________________

    Through the years, I have come to believe that OSR tales may, indeed, be nothing more than myth, after all nobody has yet been able to prove such a thing; all data regarding such issues has come only from hear say. Hear say does not equal fact, so until I see worthy evidence, I will be highly skeptical about such tales. Having ribs come loose on black powder doubles used for shooting nitro cartridges is very possible; which has happened more frequently than we like to think about. I have been in touch with one such chap, an American from Washington state, who taught school in Africa, found, and shot such a black powder double with nitro cartridges, simply because he didn't know any better at the time---he wrote a book on his African experiences, which included details on his hunting with the Holland and Holland .500 BPE double he repeatedly shot with full charge nitro cartridges.
     
  20. David W. Kropelnicki

    David W. Kropelnicki AH Member

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    Woodleigh has built his business on providing bullets that match the specifications of the bullets used in the "golden era" of double rifles. The ogive is exact and they are great game bullets. You can't go wrong with them.





     

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