Verifying Hunting Outfitters and Professional Hunters Credentials

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by pigslayer, Feb 25, 2014.

  1. Bushwack

    Bushwack AH Fanatic

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    Marius,

    It is a topic on its own...and this has been discussed on this forum. It is not to say that if your are a member of PHASA that you are a respectable Outfitter or PH - Just ask Juan Pace (Shangwari Safaris)(Rhino Poaching in RSA) who is still a member of PHASA and banned from this forum i believe...PHASA Members P,Q,R


    We perhaps do know all the respectable Outfitter and PH's on PHASA, but do we know the bad ones?
  2. Bushwack

    Bushwack AH Fanatic

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    like indicated on above replies, ask on this Forum, perhaps we know them? and ask for references and and and!!!
  3. shakari

    shakari AH Enthusiast

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    I was a PHASA member for something like 20 years and only let my membership lapse when I retired and only then because they didn't have a retired list but as much as I've (mostly) supported them in the past, my opinion of them has fallen dramatically in recent times because I feel they've been taken over by the guys involved in the canned lion industry and I reckon their recent vote to reduce the wilding period from 6 months to just 7 days is an utter bloody disgrace! :(
  4. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Well that's another topic again Shakari which I believe is not quite on par... ANYWAY to stay on track.....

    PHASA gives one advantage to a client, if you book with a PHASA member and something goes wrong or you have a less than satisfactory experience you do as a client have a professional body to formally lodge a complaint against....
    Which will be followed up if your outfitter is a PHASA member... This I have witnessed (not as an inquiry on myself just wanted to add) more than once..

    I find it interesting (shakari not aimed at you) that so many guides and outfitters prefer to complain with regards to PHASA and yet has never been a member or been to a meeting...

    Guys it's like complaining about a government and yet you never exercised your right to vote...

    Become pro active and part of a professional body and raise your opinion to provide and bring about change....

    There are many arguments against and for... I for one am pro. Especially From a professional side.

    My best always
  5. shakari

    shakari AH Enthusiast

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    Jaco

    I think there's 2 separate issues there.

    PHASA is a non Governmental organisation (although this might change) and at the moment have no legal powers at all and the most they can do is to remove membership either temporarily or permanently and the truth is a flaky operator probably won't be a member anyway and if he is, he won't care much if he is kicked out...... I don't mean to criticise PHASA by that statement and it is just an observation for the sake of clarity so members here don't get the wrong impression of the organisation.

    The second issue is about becoming pro active in an organisation when one doesn't agree with some or all of the policies. Sure, you might be able to change those policies from the inside but equally, you may not be able to and by being a member, you then by default, become guilty by association........ IMO, each individual must decide for himself where the line is drawn and although I think what PHASA did with the lion wilding period is an utter disgrace, I have many friends who are still members and I wouldn't dream of holding their membership against them...... They're still my good mates and they always will be. :)
  6. Diamondhitch

    Diamondhitch AH Legend

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    I also prefer to be contacted by email for references then by phone after initial contact if necessary. It is easier to get a hold of me on my personal phone if you have contacted me 1st since I screen all strange numbers since 90% are solicitors (so much for the Canada "no call" list).

    Reference lists are crucial to my search.
  7. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    I am with you, shakari, for most members it does mean quite a bit to be a member of Phasa being expelled could also become costly especially if one wanted or was an exhibitor at DSC and in the future SCI.

    Things are changing thick and fast... Serious well respected outfitters are and should be members it is our duty as I am PHASA, you are PHASA and Marius is PHASA....

    The negativity associated by being a member of PHASA due to policies adopted are fabricated at best. VS. The negativity surrounding non members and dubious dealings, in 15 years of professional hunting I have never had someone approach me and frown due to the fact that I am a PHASA member,

    I have seen it go the other way though.

    We are to change what we don't support policy wise....Not a body that are supposedly representing us when we are not there to represent ourselves.

    My best always
  8. shakari

    shakari AH Enthusiast

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    Jaco

    I wouldn't call them fabricate but hope you're right and I'm wrong and I guess it'll be proved one way or another depending on if the wilding period ever reverts from the current 7 days to the originally proposed 6 months.
  9. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Shakari PHASA is not all about Lion there are many great things and other important factors to look at as well, PHASA represents the industry not 4 or 5 individuals...

    Hence if we are to bring about change it is to come from us and from = from within....

    It is not some big pie in the sky making decisions that we have no control over.
    We make the decisions... As members. Not being a member has far greater disadvantages.
    As mentioned with DSC on board SCI is to follow.

    My best always
  10. nieluyssafaris

    nieluyssafaris AH Senior Member

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    Hi Jaco, Shakari, Brickburn, Shakari and Spike.t

    I agree 100% with all of you.

    Pigslayer,

    When you are planning a hunting safari to any country in the world, you have to be definitely sure that the outfitter is legit and obeying the laws of that specific area he is running his outfit in.

    Being on a safari cost a lot of money and taking the chance by booking with a habitual criminal outfit will not only spoil your safari but will get you into big trouble as well.

    I want to emphasise that you got to do your homework thoroughly on the outfitter you are intending to use before you commit yourself with any deposits or bookings.

    9/10 times if it sounds too good to be true, it is too good to be true. Use as many tools as you can think of to get the necessary information on the outfitter you are interested in.

    1. Google his Name and Surname and read whatever is available of him.
    2. Visit his website and contact some of his reverences.
    3. If there aint any reverences don't even bother to hunt with him.
    4. Mention his name on AH and ask the members about him.

    Just my two cents.
  11. shakari

    shakari AH Enthusiast

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    Actually mate, it represents it's members rather than the industry. It might like to think it represents the industry but the truth is that it doesn't. There's plenty of good PHs out there who choose not to be members & that's their prerogative in a free society.

    Certainly I'll agree it's a democracy & members make the rules but like I said, so many members are so involved in the canned lion industry, they recently voted to change the voluntary lion wilding period from the originally proposed 6 months to just 7 days & that to me at least, isn't ethical & proves the association has been infiltrated by a large number of people who sell canned lions or are otherwise involved in the industry....... & that (IMO) isn't good for PHASA, the ordinary members, lions, the SA hunting industry, SA or the long term future of hunting in Africa & the reason for that is that one day, the antis will use it to beat us over the head with. In fact, Nat Geo has (I'm told) recently done that very thing by making a documentary that secretly filmed some of the 'lion conservation groups' & then went on to prove they're actually breeding lions for the canned lion shooting industry.

    Another thing I reckon they're making a mistake on is agreeing with the Govt proposal to make PHASA membership mandatory etc....... Sure, it looks great to PHASA at first glance because it increases their membership & power but think on. Firstly, how can PHASA represent the best interests of it's members whilst at the same time, be the regulatory body that governs them and secondly, if PHASA are the governing body that controls licencing etc, what then becomes the role of the game dept(s) that currently govern and regulate it?
    As for the thing about DSC/SCI only letting members have booth space: - I can see trouble with that as well...... a significant percentage of companies sell hunting in RSA and also elsewhere. Do the clubs then say the same rule only applies to RSA or must it apply to all countries and/or, should it apply to all other countries as well and what if those other countries don't have the same set up. Come to that, what about agents..... must they be members as well?

    Personally, I can see a very troubled future for PHASA & it's members if they continue on their present path.
  12. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris SPONSOR AH Elite

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    ...OR

    Pigslayer can put this whole thread to bed and book his trip with one of the many reputable outfitters and sponsors of AfricaHunting.com
    The biggest damn hunting "movement" in the world and can virtually be guaranteed a great trip.
    Can I get a hell yeah!
  13. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    HELL YEAH! I think choicing one of the outiftters on AH is always good.
  14. Diamondhitch

    Diamondhitch AH Legend

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    Hell Yeah, its hard to go wrong with our regulars, and there are plenty of hunt reports to back them up.
  15. shakari

    shakari AH Enthusiast

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    Still worth doing your research properly if only because of the size of the investment.
  16. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Agh shit!!!!! He'll yeah!!! As a well respected PHASA MEMBER amongst others..... I do have to agree with Marius, who I believe is also a well respected PHASA member. ;)

    Shakari agree with proper research.....and were better to start than with AH members, + being part of PHASA that should be considered a bonus.. :) ;) :) ;) :)

    My best always
  17. shakari

    shakari AH Enthusiast

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    Jaco

    I agree that right here is a good place to start the research but I was taught to be cautious so would recommend the hunter check a variety of sources rather than just one.
  18. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Very true, indeed.

    My best always
  19. pigslayer

    pigslayer AH Member

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    gents,

    i'm not looking for hunt at this time. my last hunt i was scammed and i'm 99.9% sure was partially hunted in a province where the outfitter/p.h. is not licensed. much,much more.

    he has been reported to nature conservation in the free state. it appears this is going to take a long time to get resolved. Hannes Blom will be investigating andrew mclaren safaris. having inquired as to status and what all the investigator needs from me there has been ,lets say ........slow progress. as such i contacted my next source provided by p.h.a.s.a. Werner Boing. he told me that hannes was the only Officer investigating hunting related crimes right now and unfortunately he is swamped. i have been assured he will get to it.

    in the interim i don't see why i can't help hannes a bit more and i'm starting with licensing.

    so guys don't start high 5'ing yet as andrew is a member of the forum although an infrequent poster here. my single biggest mistake in booking andrew was i gave him credibility based on his frequent long term posts on another forum as well as here. i dismissed other red flags and had no idea he was lying quite often in his posts.

    a great example on a post he made in ah was he claimed his land was too small to make a living on. he was quite right as he owns zero (0) , none,nada,nil and the like. but he implies as if he has some.


    a half truth is a whole lie !

    was going to provide a link but i can't locate that post. but the good news is i have a print out. quite frank, i have a 3 ring binder full of andrew mclarens internet posts,pm's,emails,documentation and even his new and old website. i did this to make sure nothing came up deleted if nature conservation needs to review it. :D as a note forums can usually recall deleted material anyway.

    i've all ready "outted" andrew on another forum as i'm sure some of u know. on the hunting report i plan on filing here i wanted to include how nature conservation resolves the case.

    i don't think it's cool to name the other forum out of respect to this forums owner so i'll just say most of u can accurately find my other post. when i filed that report i did it with the utmost and quite deserved disrespect that i could possibly muster without using too many 4 letter words. it makes my blood boil just to hear the name andrew. on the flipside it always makes me laugh in the end. i haven't even read the thread i started on the other forum but i'm sure it's quite hilarious. the heros over there started attacking me before i even got the report out. AND THAT WAS AS EXPECTED. i didn't even bother to finish as i got all the attention i wanted .... as desired !

    i'll prolly start another thread asking the group here about legalities that i'm sure can be answered with authority to tick off my list for Hannnes.
  20. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Guess the assumption was made you were checking on an outfitter before buying. After the fact was not contemplated.

    Andrew McLaren's last thread started was almost TWO YEARS AGO!
    A grand total of 4 threads started.

    Here they are:

    http://www.africahunting.com/hunting-africa/7704-south-african-hunting-information-2-what-what-not-fair-chase-hunting.html

    http://www.africahunting.com/hunting-africa/7688-what-put-take-shooting.html

    http://www.africahunting.com/great-deals-hunts-worldwide/1415-you-determine-discount-off-good-starting-price-plains-game-hunt-cull-hunt.html

    http://www.africahunting.com/vbcms-comments/2571-article-ethics-eye-beholder.html


    I have more digits on my appendages than he has posted here on AH. His last post was Sept 2012.

    Please do share the results here on AH.

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