TTSXs = FAIL

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by Diamondhitch, Dec 24, 2013.

  1. Diamondhitch

    Diamondhitch AH Legend

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    Since trying out the 100gr TTSXs and finding how much my .257 likes them I have shot a few animals. I had been finding petals left behind in the wounds but the bulk of the bullet was missing and the game died quickly. I finally recovered one. My wife took a broadside shot on a Cow Elk which broke a rib on each side and the stump of the bullet was caught by the skin on the off side. I did not find the petals to know exactly where they came off but will find out when we butcher later this week.
    I suspect they shed on the way in because despite perfect shot placement the Elk moved off a short distance and bedded down. We waited 30 min then trailed it up. After slugging through near waist deep snow for 300yds we found it laying down and still alert 40 yards from where it was 1st hit. It got up and a high shoulder shot put her down for the count.

    Needless to say I am less than impressed with the TTSXs and will be switching back to my tried and true TSXs, which have never failed me and have held together even on heavy bone hits at close range.

    Has anyone had similar experiences? Maybe they just cant handle the velocity of the .257? I am a staunch Barnes supporter and this is the 1st problem I have ever had with them,I am quite disappointed to say the least.
     
  2. lcq

    lcq AH Veteran

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    I may be old but I prefer a quality bonded lead bullet. They just work and are way cheaper. That may be a moot point given the last US lead smelter is being shut down by the EPA. Hornady makes an all copper round you could try.

    my $0.02

    Brian
     
  3. Diamondhitch

    Diamondhitch AH Legend

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    I love the TSXs, they are top notch. I don't like the way these TTSXs performed and was wondering about others experiences, good or bad.
     
  4. gillettehunter

    gillettehunter AH Fanatic

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    Hi Diamondhitch. I have used the TTSX in a couple of rifles. .270WSM with 130 gr bullet. Went through close to 36 inches of mule deer. Still had the petals. .300 WSM 150Gr TTSX. Ibex, elk and a bunch of African animals. Never not had it hold together. It could be a problem in the .25 caliber and not so much in the others. Like you suggested it could be the velocities. I think both of mine are well over 3000 fps and maybe over 3100. Never chrono'd the loads. Have one now and could check. I have posted pics of some of mine before. Only recovered a couple and they have been fine. Sorry to hear about it not preforming properly on your elk. Bruce
     
  5. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    This was the first year I had anything that even resembles what you are describing with a TTSX.

    But, it had gone through the base of a skull and neck bone and some ribs. (The deer was bedded)

    I found a very small piece of the tip of one petal in the fur 25 to 30 inches from where it went in.

    I never found the bullet. It exited and the deer obviously died instantaneously.

    On another occasion, I had one bullet go in sideways (key hole) after it ricocheted off a branch before hitting the Oryx. Still killed it. 100% retention and did not open obviously.


    In 130 TTSX rounds (both 130 grain 270 and 180 grain 300WM) fired at African game (plus Elk and Deer), including Giraffe which was the only animal to move any distance, everything died quickly or instantly with good shot placement. Some bullets that were recovered had nearly complete weight retention.

    I am not sure what is going on for you.

    Did the bullet hit something on the way to the Elk?
     
  6. Divernhunter

    Divernhunter AH Veteran

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    Our expierence was the other way around.
    Killed a number of animals with the 30cal 150gr TTSX all worked great. Had a number of the TSX not expand and even close up and bend some when hitting a bone at the right angle. Some that did not expand were too heavy for the cartridge and thus did not get pushed enough. Others were not pushed enough for one reason or another to get expansion.
     
  7. 1ObsessedHunter

    1ObsessedHunter AH Veteran

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    Diamondhitch.....I'm a diehard supporter of the 257 Weatherby...you and I have previously discussed our 257s. Perhaps that particular bullet (diamerter and weight) is a little fragile for elk sized game. Although it has been done and is doable with the 257, personally I wouldn't shoot an elk with my 257 and a 100gr. bullet. I think there is potential for something to go wrong. I limit my 257 to deer-sized game. I recenly got into shooting TTSXs and I'm experimenting with the new LRX in my 300 Weatherby, but I have no experince with them in my 257. I shoot 115 Bergers which yield .25 MOA accuracy. The largest animal I took with it was a Red Hartebeest which fell inside of 50 yards. Please keep me posted on your 257, I'm interested in hearing your results from the field and on the range.
     
  8. Diamondhitch

    Diamondhitch AH Legend

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    Good to hear you guys are generally having good success. I am leaning toward too much velocity (3675fps) for the .25 cal to handle since all sizes of game have been ripping petals off. I will be going back to regular TSXs which have performed flawlessly in this gun. I have untested (on game) 210gr for my .338 Lapua and from what you guys have said they should perform well. When I actually shoot something with them in that caliber I will let you know how they do at 3150fps. It would have been nice to try it on this elk but it would have flattened both Christine (it is her elk) and the elk!!!
     
  9. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    I was thinking of using the 100 grain tsx for my son on his springbucks.Then maybe loading some 120 grain a-frame for some bigger game animal with his 257 weatherby.What is the big difference between the tsx and ttsx
     
  10. Shakey

    Shakey GOLD SUPPORTER AH Veteran

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    I too am a supporter of the TSX. We use it in 6.8 SPC, .300 AAC Blackout, .308 on up to and including .416 Rem. Many have had experiences where they fail to expand, but I never have (at least not in the few bullets we've recovered). I very seldom shoot beyond 200 yards (usually less than 100), so maybe that has something to do with it. Almost every rifle I own will shoot MOA or better with factory loaded TSX. TTSX is a different story. In the few rifles I've tried it in, I can't get MOA performance with TTSX. I've quit trying.

    I did try the Barnes MRX years ago for caribou (tipped with a heavier-than-lead core) in .300 win mag. One of the few times I've shot an animal beyond 200 yards - I shot a bull quartering towards me at 287 yds. It dropped fairly quickly, but upon inspection I found 2 distinct exit wounds several inches apart. That particular bullet came apart somehow after hitting the on-side shoulder.
     
  11. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    The TTSX has a plastic tip to initiate expansion where the TSX has no tip.

    My experience with TTSX ha been excellent. My 270 Win loves them, very deadly on whitetail deer.
     
  12. colorado

    colorado AH Enthusiast

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    I'm with you. I'm still shooting 150g Partitions through my 270s after 40 years, though I have backed them off to 2900 fps. I've used the 300g Swift A-Frames in my 375 Weatherby to good effect, and do shoot the 570g TSX in my 500 Jeffery. The hollow point in the 570g TSX is so large there's no question about them opening up, and they do start at 50 caliber to begin with! Lots of good bullets out there. Sorry to hear about your problems with the TTSX.
     
  13. Divernhunter

    Divernhunter AH Veteran

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    My suggestion would be to just shoot 120gr Swift A-Frames for springbok and other game in Africa. I worked up a load for my daughters 257Roberts at 2899FPS(yes that was fast) and she killed everything including small and large warthogs(several), Kudu, Red Hartebeest, Zebra, Impala(2) all with one shot at ranges from 135-410 yards. I used 225gr A-Frames in a 338win mag for all my game including a springbok and did not ruin the animal or cape.

    If I were to hunt elk with the Barnes I would probably use the 120gr TTSX in my 257Weatherby. Actually I would use one of my other rifles before the 257 rifles(257R/25-06/257W) since I have better suited rifles for that purpose. For my daughters 257R I would use Swift A-Frames before any Barnes bullet or any other bullet for that matter.
     
  14. Diamondhitch

    Diamondhitch AH Legend

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    100gr TSX is an awesome choice. They have never let me down on large or small critters. The springbok will not know what hit them and TSXs are a taxidermists best friend, nice small exit holes with plenty of carnage in between.

    TTSXs have a polymer tip which in the .257 100gr TTSX seems to perform like any other polymer tipped bullet when fired at high velocity - violent expansion, at least in my limited experience with it anyway.
    TSXs are basically the old XBT with several cannelures to reduce drag in the barrel, thereby reducing fouling and increasing velocity.
     
  15. Diamondhitch

    Diamondhitch AH Legend

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    I had no luck with TTSXs for accuracy in my old barrel. In my new barrel the TTSXs shot amazingly, which is why I used them this season, they shot by far the best groups of any hunting bullet I have ever tried and are tied for best groups I have ever consistently shot with 100gr Sierra Matchkings.
     
  16. Diamondhitch

    Diamondhitch AH Legend

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    If I was the hunter I would have used my .338 Lapua but in this case it would have killed both hunter and hunted LOL. It is way too much for my wife to handle. This is the 2nd Elk my .257 has shot, the 1st was DRT, although I don't recommend it as an optimal Elk round they are adequate.
     
  17. Stocky

    Stocky AH Veteran

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    The TTSX Is Not The Problem Here

    I'm going with the position that a 100 grain bullet of any make is marginal, no, make that inadequate, elk medicine.

    The fact that 99.9% of the game shot with the quarter-bore is well under 200 lbs, a good portion of that in the <10 lb. varmint category, it becomes easy to see why these pills are generally made on the soft side even if they are all copper. Plus that little petal is what, 0.125" thick at its base? No surprise they fall off at 3000+ fps, take a piece of pure 1/8" copper wire and bend it in your fingers, now picture that hitting an elk's shoulder bone or even an elk rib.

    Sure, they'll work if and when everything is perfect. Way back in the ribs? Have to think it would take some time to bleed out thru a quarter inch hole.

    Same can be said of almost any .257 bullet. The blame lies not with the bullet, but with the bullet and cartridge selection.

    Would we even be having this conversation if it was a .243? No, because most people wouldn't use a 243 on an elk. Although I don't think many would argue that a 6mm is a good elk rifle, I'd argue that that is a better round to be firing 100 grain bullets at elk with, due to that weight bullet's better sectional density in a 24 over a 25, it would theoretically penetrate better. (I wouldn't do that either if I had a choice.)

    At the very minimum move it up to 115 to 120 grain pills in a .25, and I say this as a big fan of the 24s and 25s, but one has to know one's limits. It's the ability to use a 120 grain bullet that gives the 25's any advantage over the 6 mms.
     
  18. elmerfudd555

    elmerfudd555 AH Member

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    I have used my 257 weath extensively with a variety of Barnes X bullets and on game ranging is size from Pronghorns to zebra. I have zero recovered bullets to wager an opinion on shedding petals but I love the 100gr TTSX for deer and up to say caribou sized game. For zebra sized critters I use the 115 TSX. In every case I have had a clean pass through after hitting bone or not and the entry/exits have been about what I'd expect from a premium bullet. I shot a really large (for around here in WV) buck a couple years ago at virtually point blank range dumping that little bullet at 3620 fps into the shoulder at less than 10 yds. Again complete pass through, no evidence of blow up. Elk are a lot bigger and tougher in my experience and I elected to use my 338-06 with the TTSX for elk. A bull and a cow the last two years with the 210gr bullet and again complete pass through sand great trauma inside the body cavities. I have come to believe that for elk sized game the 257 is just a bit on the marginal side. Not by any means under gunned but on the fringe. On a Five day Colorado hunt I can't guarantee that the animal will pose just right for the shot and I like the extra penetration that a 180 to 210 gr bullet provides when the quartering angles get steep. Just my nickel, it is in fact my hands down fav for 90% of my hunting
     
  19. 35bore

    35bore AH Elite

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    Truely hate to hear that you have had trouble with a bullet that shoots good in you rifle. After reading the posts above (and by your own admission) maybe the 100grainer is going to fast. Never know, may have gotten a factory flawed lot/box of bullets. Wouldn't hurt to drop the company an email to see if anyone else has reported a problem, even if no one else has, they might be able to give some helpful advice. Good luck DH, hope everything works out. If it doesn't, you are like the rest of us, you have other options, LOL
     
  20. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    I use a 120 grains TTSX in my 6.5-06 with the average measured speed of 3367 fps.
    This works flawlessly.
    Very accurate, great effect on the animals, great penetration and with little or very moderate meat damage.
    Would not hesitate to use it on Elk and even Moose.

    But I suspect that the polymer tip in the 100 grain .257 TTSX might result in a to hefty expansion in the speeds(3675 fps) you get Diamondhitch.
    With the result that it loses its petals since the bullet diameter and petal thickness is rather small.
    The TSX without the polymer tip has a more controlled expansion at that speed, resulting in petals that stay attached to the bullet.

    Because of the concern for this, I have stayed away from the 100 grain .264 TTSX bullet for my 6.5-06, but I would not hesitate to use it in my 6.5x55.
     

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