Thought on turning SxS shotgun into double rifle

[Parsons]

What is everyones thoughts on taking an old SxS shotgun and turning it into a double rifle? Of course a reputable brand shotgun would be sourced so that the receiver isn't gonna make you worry about breaking or anything of the sort. Has anyone on here had one built for them or is this taboo in this part of the hunting community. We have a project at school that people have been working on for someone but I thought it would be cool to build one for myself. Just looking for peoples opinions on the idea.

 

[Red Leg]

Please approach this very cautiously. SxS shotgun actions are designed to withstand a very specific set of pressures associated with a shotgun shells. Actions capable of handling an ounce and an eighth of number 7 1/2 are not built to handle a magnum load - and the magnum action may or may not handle the pressures of an express rifle. Beretta has built a few on its basic O/U action and Browning built a few on the Superposed. I believe none were heavier than 9.3x74. I remember some years ago a gunmaker attempted to market a double rifle built on Browning BSS actions, but I believe Browning eventually put a stop to that. Should you locate an appropriate action, remember that in the UK and on the Continent a man might apprentice for five to eight years before he is allowed to even try and regulate his first set of barrels. It is that hard.

 

[Parsons]

Thanks for the reply. That is the problem the project they are on now is having. I believe they are trying to regulate at 75 yards and they are 36 inches off. They only work on it every few months for a few hours though. I would build it in a smaller magnum like 375 H&H. I just feel it would be a fun project and a great learning experience. I would source one of the well made older shotguns. Would not use a stoeger or CZ action. I know the regulating would be hard and take sometime but how many people know how to do it if they ever needed to for whatever reason.

 

[bassasdaindia]

I will start by saying that I do not know much about the topic,however I asked my gunsmith this same question last week and he replied that the cost to do such a project would be similar to purchasing a double rifle and therefore not a viable project to undertake.

he indicated that if there is no real cost saving rather buy a double that has been manufactured for the correct purpose.

 

[Parsons]

Yes I figure paying the gunsmith to do the work would cost as much. I am not paying anyone to do the work. It would be a project for me to work on in gunsmithing school. The cost for me would be the reciever, barrels, and wood if I decide to make a stock for it and little misc. parts i am not thinking of. I figure me doing the work I could have less than $2000 into it. I may be way out of line but $500 for barrels, $600 for a donor gun, and the rest for whatever comes up. I think most of the cost comes from the labor involved to pay the gunsmith.

 

[Red Leg]

Becoming a gunsmith/maker who specializes in fine doubles (shotguns and rifles) might be an angle to look at for your career. They are a rare breed in this country, and yet these types of guns are becoming ever more popular. There are exactly three in the US who I trust with mine - Keith Kearcher http://members.toast.net/keithkearcher/ , J. J. Perodeau http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx?tabid=37 , and the good folks at Holland & Holland in New York http://www.hollandandholland.com/newyork.php . There was a fourth, Jack Rowe, but he has retired. There are probably, at most, a half a dozen others, but I have not used them. There are, unfortunately, literally hundreds of gunsmiths, otherwise competent working on a model 12, who can and have butchered any number of fine doubles (I regrettably have used some of them). The question is where do you get the training? Remember that no two English SxS's are exactly alike. Even the very basic guns of the same model were filed and fitted individually. So when I bring a gunsmith my Charles Osborne with a broken hammer spring, who teaches him how to shape and bend the spring and heat treat it differently along its length to make sure it functions perfectly for next eighty years or so? Maybe reaching out to JJ or Keith and discussing their profession would offer you some ideas how to get from being a gunsmith school graduate to the sort of master gunmaker who can really handle fine double work. Just a thought, but tapping into that customer base might be a way to separate yourself eventually from the pack.

Doing your SxS project will expose you to some of the challenges. Just make sure you have someone who really knows look at the action you choose and agree that it will handle rifle pressures. No education is worth touching off a grenade next to your face.

 

[AkMike]

It has been done many times with success. I have a 450 NE that was converted from a JP Sauer 12 ga.. It's possibly a bit more accurate than the Searcy 450. Butch Searcy began his business building DR's on the Browning BSS action. They are still around and shooting great!

I would not ever suggest a 375H&H on any SG frame. Way too much pressure for a conversion IMO. I'd suggest the 45-70 for North America use as a first project. Keep it in mind that it can be a money pit if you need to farm out much of the labor. Good solid shooing DR's can be gotten cheaper than building them.

Before you begin get a copy of the second edition of Ellis Brown's "Building Double Rifles on Shotgun Actions" book". It'll help guide you thru the process. For your donor action make sure that you choose one with 3 bites. The CZ is actually a better one to begin with. I'm surprised you dismissed it already.

Edit to add; Another reason to skip the 375 H&H is the lack of a rim for extraction. It'd be a royal PITA to build an extractor with tiny pawls for that belted rimless case.

 

[Spooksar]

The gunsmith at Rocky Mountain Rifles in Dawson Creek is in the process of building one in 45/70 just to try it. It's his personal project and he has many hours into it.

 

[Parsons]

Red thank you for the names of those people I may call them and see what they think would be a good place to start on this project. This semester we touch on spring making a little. we have to make replacement springs for an LC Smith shotgun. One of my instructors apprenticed under a guy that was sent over to England to train at Holland and Holland. I would definitely consult him and if he didn't know then I am sure the guy he apprenticed under would.

AK thanks for the info on going 45/70 on the first one. I wasn't sure exactly what caliber would be good to start with. I have some ideas on an ejector system but not sure how easily it can be done. The school library has the book you mentioned and I plan on making a copy of it if not just buy it. I dismissed the CZ based on it is make in Hungary or Turkey and have read where people have had problems with them after 1000 rounds. I do not plan on farming out any of the labor. If anything it would be an instructor that helps and i get that for free.

Spook I may give him a call and see what he has to say about it. Is he an approachable guy?

 

[enysse]

I agree with the CZ shotgun comment, I own one...very strong!

 

[Parsons]

alright good to know about the CZ being strong enough.

 

[AkMike]

I would suggest a JP Sauer with a 16 ga receiver.

I wouldn't begin to consider any ejector system at this point in time unless the SG donor already had it.

 

[Parsons]

Just wondering what makes you suggest JP Sauer? I know they are well built bt any other reason?

 

[AkMike]

They are a well built SG that's been around for many years and are pretty cheap if you scout around for a good donor. Possibly even with bad pipes and since you'll be using the mono-block, bad tubes are a plus!

 

[Parsons]

Yes I do not care what kind of shape the barrels are in. I will have to search around and see what I can come up with. Depending on how the barrels on my AH fox are I may be able to us it. haven't really checked them yet

 

[AkMike]

I suspect that you'll find the Fox will have 2 bites not 3.

3 is much better!

 

[Parsons]

ok I will check mine on tuesday.

 

[AkMike]

Before you take any steps I really think that you'd be better off to get that book and understand more of what you want. Ellis Brown has taken time to explain everything that you need for this build.

 

[Parsons]

I won't start this until I have read through the book and talked it over with some much more knowledgable people. I am not just going to jump in head first.

 

[AkMike]

One of the members here, DoubleRifleJack has taken classes from Brown and might be willing to help out here also.