Those thinking about buying a first double rifle

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by DUGABOY1, May 30, 2009.

  1. DUGABOY1

    DUGABOY1 CONTRIBUTOR AH Enthusiast

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    From the vote given by the members who voted we will see two things!

    A, One voter voted for every excuse for not haveing a double rifle, and that vote was by someone who has owned, and used double rifles, for years, and had had good success with them on dangerous game. This is not suprizing to me because I have known this man for some years, and he uses his doubles according to his beliefs about them. What I mean by this is because of the way he believes doubles work, that is the way he uses them.

    B, Because #3, #4, #5, and #6 are the most common misconceptions by most who do not understand the true way a double rifle is supposed to work, these four votes are no surprise at all to me, Though none are true.

    The only vote that has some substance is #2 That says double rifles are simply too expensive, got a vote from everyone who voted. This too is subjective, and personal, but also not based on the actual worth because of the difficulty in the building of a workable double rifle, but on an individual's personal resources.

    #1 and #6 Is false. PERIOD!

    #2 has some legitimacy , when you can buy a rifle like the CZ 550 in good chamberings for less than $1K , while the cheapest dependable dangerous game double rifle will cost no less than $7K used, with no features above both barrels firing when the triggers are pulled.

    # 1,3,4,5,and 6 are the result of old wives tales that have been printed in every gun rag ever printed, and repeated ad nausium, for years, many times by people who should know better. However that is the nature of man!, and nothing will usually change pre-concieved notions, and that is OK as well, because there is absolutely no mandate that says anyone is requires to own, or even consider owning a double rifle.

    More later after some more discussion among the voters!:thumb:
     
  2. mbogobutch

    mbogobutch New Member

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    Those Thinking About Buying A First Diuble Rifle

    Douga Boy 1

    How important are ejectors...Thanks for all the great info...I've always wanted to own a Double...and all the info is fantastic!! Butch
     
  3. DUGABOY1

    DUGABOY1 CONTRIBUTOR AH Enthusiast

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    Butch, I have double rifles with both, and there is no doubt the ejectors get the cases out of the rifle a little quicker, but they have thier draw-backs as well. The extractor rifle is quieter, and closed easier because the closing doesn't have to cock the ejector hammers. I have ejectors on my Merkel 140E, 9.3X74R double, and they are quick,but I usually do not use that rifle for dangerous game. My 470NE Merkel has extractors, and I find it almost as quick as the little 140E 9.3, because of the fact that the rifle closes so effortlessly.

    I think you will find that most double rifles in large chamberings,especially the vintage ones will be extractor rifles, and the 9.3, and smaller doubles, especially the NEW ones will have ejectors, or at least be available with ejectors!

    I don't believe a double rifle of either type is a handicap to it's owner, as long as the owner does his practice, re-loading the rifle under hunting conditions! :thumb:
     
  4. Skyline

    Skyline AH Fanatic

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    I was not going to wade in on this............but I will simply because I am on the damn computer answering e-mail and waiting for the dew to dry before I can bale.

    #1 This is completely subjective and not worth spending much time on.
    Accuracy and its definition is in the eye of the beholder and varies
    enormously.

    #2 Yes this has merit. Simple fact is that most can't afford a double rifle,
    even a used one for 7K. Most can't afford a 5K bolt-action either. Period.
    Those who think they can obviously are very far removed from Joe
    average out there and what their annual income is.

    #3 OK, well I think this is true with some doubles but certainly not with all
    of them.

    #4 We all know this is not really the case if we have had any exposure
    to European hunters.

    #5 Same as #4 but has a lot to do with mindset of NA's and what they
    think a double is used for.

    #6 Yes and no......certainly a double could be used for all North American big
    game hunting, but that does not mean it is the most suitable for all types of
    NA big game hunting.

    No I do not think going on a feral hog hunt on a private ranch in Texas somehow proves the premise that a double is the weapon of choice for all North American hunting.

    Up until recently seeing a $50,000 4x4 in someones driveway meant nothing more than they could get a loan or a lease.......which just about anyone could do. Lots of toys mean lots of loans and debt in most cases, not actual wealth. Most people have more than one all consuming interest in life and do actually need to have some of the equipment in order to enjoy those other pass times. No maybe not the fastest/newest/shiniest.....but you still need a boat to go fishing.

    If one has a strong enough obsession, one can convince themselves that the purchase of anything is the right thing to do........even if it is not.

    Most of us have a family and each member of the family has interests and somehow the significant others and things they want to do seems to get in the way of the one individual getting to do or buy anything they want.

    I like doubles, I have shot them quite a bit.............but I do not own one. $10,000 on a double means 10K I do not have to go on hunts with. Yes I actually do need an ATV and a dependable 4x4, a boat and several other items. If I had a big income and was Joe suburbia with a paved driveway, hated fishing, didn't need to haul livestock in a trailer or use an ATV for ranch work, had a wife with no interests of her own that only wanted to go on holidays that revolved around hunting, actually had a motorists association that would come out in the middle of nowhere to get you out of the snowbank at -40..........yep, I'd have a nice double to gaze at in the gun rack for most of the year, shooting it at the range to impress the locals and drive a used Toyota Corolla.
     
  5. DUGABOY1

    DUGABOY1 CONTRIBUTOR AH Enthusiast

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    NOW! Sky has added at least ten other supposed REASONS to not own, and hunt with a double rifle, none of which has anything to do with whether a double rifle is suitable for hunting game in North America! There will be more I'm sure, and some of the REASONS offered by Sky, are some of the SO-CALLED reasons some site when asked why they think they can't afford a double rifle.

    In Sky’s case he is a Rancher, and Outfitter in Canada, so those are legitimate reasons in his case, but not for the guy who wants one but doesn't need the things he buys anymore than he does a double rifle. Like the guy in Tenn. who lives in a single wide, with an out house in back, but has a $25,000 bass boat, and a $45,000 Big ford diesel Power stroke dually to pull it down the pavement that is twenty feet from his door. What Sky and I are both saying, I think is, the only drawback for owning a double rifle, IF YOU WANT ONE, is YOUR priorities. None of this has anything to do with whether a double rifle is suited for hunting anyplace. The only type of hunting where a double rifle is not suited is something like Mountain Goat, or sheep hunting, but for that matter most regular hunting rifles are not the best suited for that hunting either.

    The one thing I would like an answer to is the statement that:

    ..........:confused::confused::confused:

    First off, nobody has said that the double rifle is the WEAPON OF CHOICE!

    That is the whole reason for this thread, to find out why it is not more used here. Other than price, and the fact that most people do not understand them, there is no legitimate reason, IMO.

    Instead my premise is that it is just as good as any hunting rifle for general hunting in North America, and is the only rifle type that started out as a hunting rifle, and has never been used for anything else! All others were first war weapons, that were pressed into service for hunting as well.

    My question of Sky is, what has the land being privately owned have to do with the difficulty of hunting Feral Hogs, or any other animal? The whole state of Texas is privately owned, but that has nothing to do with the quality of hunting, only the access to hunters . There are only a few High fence game ranches in Texas, I must say are mostly utilized by folks from other places, a great many from Canada, but very few Texans. The fact that the land is privately owned has nothing to do with the double rifle being suitable for hunting in North America! It only has to do with a Texan’s difficulty in hunting in his own state, nothing more!
    .............................:thumb:
     
  6. Skyline

    Skyline AH Fanatic

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    That was way too easy. :)
     
  7. Skyline

    Skyline AH Fanatic

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    You Texas boys are way too sensitive :);)

    Hunted in Texas once for aoudad in the Ft. Davis area, not behind high fence. It was like going to Hawaii in January. -40 at home and 65 down there. Keep looking for fair-chase axis and blackbuck but I think I will have to go to Argentina when I can swing it.

    You can hunt anything with a double as long as you know your limitations. You would never catch me with one in some of the areas I guide in though. Way too hard on rifles, never mind something that costs as much as a new compact car. Somehow the thoughts of pounding a nice double around in a boat on a lake in the sub-arctic during caribou season in sleet, rain and snow just does not appeal to me. They are not particularly handy for packing in a scabbard on horseback either and not really what I would want, as you mentioned, on a mountain hunt or for pronghorn either.

    Would not hesitate to use one for bear hunting or moose, even elk where I live. I sort of think a 9.3x74R would be ideal. Oh well, it is not to be.

    I have guided a number of European hunters over the years for moose and black bear that brought doubles in that cartridge, also a few with drillings. It is all a matter of what you are use to.
     
  8. DUGABOY1

    DUGABOY1 CONTRIBUTOR AH Enthusiast

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    I know what you mean about the treatment of rifles up there, and in Alaska as well. I have used my 9.3X74R double on caribou in September rains in costal Alaska but I have a homemade rain jacket for my rifles no matter the type. I think you would enjoy haveing a little 140E Merkel 9.3X74R, with ejectors, and a QD scope attachment. I don't think there is a better Moose, or bear rifle made, especially in the dryer parts of Canada, and Alaska. We at DRSS have several members from Canada, and Guides from Alaska who guide for bear with double rifles. The only two rifles I take to Alaska, or Canada, are the 9.3 double, or a whitworth African express 375 H&H with a synthetic stock, and Warne QD rings, and bases and 1.5-5x30 Leupold VIII scope with a lighted reticle.

    You are correct about on horses, not many rifles are safe on a jug-headed horse, and a double is at much greater risk. However, North America has a lot of land, and in all climates of the world, and for at least 70 % of this land the double rifle type is simply a hunting rifle that requires no more care than any other rifle, I agree that the 9.3X74R double is the very best choice for North America, and mine has become my all time favorite rifle for the USA,Mexico, and Canada.

    .................Good Hunting :thumb:
     
  9. BryceM

    BryceM AH Veteran

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    Well, I don't know a durn thing about doubles, other than that someday I want to wander around Africa with one, but I'll throw out my two bits about NA hunting.

    If I look back at all the hunting I've done over the past 28 years, I'd say there are a few situations where a double would have been fantastic. There are many more where a double wouldn't have worked well at all. I live in the West and hunt primarily mule deer, pronghorn, and elk. For pronghorn, long-range shots are the norm and calm days are few and far between. Even if you can get up close, you'll be better off with a gun that can reach out there to 300+ yds in case everything doesn't go to plan.

    For mule deer, I've taken one at 20 yards, several at around 100 yards, and many more between 250-450 yards. Last year I saw a goofy 5x2 that I decided was "the one". I couldn't get any closer than 400 yards, but it was early on a nice calm, crisp fall morning and I had an absolutely perfect rest. Boom, flop. With a double I'd have been out of luck.

    For elk, a double might be reasonable. I haven't taken too many, but I usually run into them either in heavy timber or out in open meadows. For still-hunting in timber a double would be fantastic. Come to think of it, the idea would be downright fun.

    Back east, where 50-100 yard shots are the norm, on pig hunts, or for certain other situations I think one would be great for NA. It seems somehow "wrong" to put a scope on a double - sort of like putting with a 3 wood. Sure you can do it, and you might even get good at it, but the things are really made for different duties.

    All of that aside, I still want to own one someday. They're way up there on the "cool" scale, they're not likely to be a bad investment, and I think it might be fun to poke a hole or two into a big buff or elephant someday. For that particular duty, I think holding two guns at one time would be a fantastic idea.
     
  10. ch_FM77

    ch_FM77 New Member

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    Big bore doubles were actually used in World War I. I have heard of them being used as anti-tank weapons. I have also heard an account of a 600 NE. double being used to take out German sniping positions. The soldier brought it with him to war and used it to shoot through the steel plates that the snipers used over their positions for protection. After he died, a fellow soldier tried shooting it in a prone position and ended up breaking his collar bone. So, yes they weren't mass produced for war, but they were used in war.

    I am interested in double rifles, and would like to own one some day, but thought I would share this info. I know it is kind of a technicality, but they were used in war. Thanks for all of your info by the way, I agree with you on a lot!

    Charlie
     

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