Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by Glenn, Sep 9, 2011.
French gunmakers specialist : DB
L'Atelier Verney-Carron : Fine Guns
Africain - Chapuis Armes
Wow! Thanks for the discussion. I have been looking for a double, but I think I'll stick with my .416 Ruger. I prefer a rifle that is capable of a 2" or less group at 100 yards...sounds like it will remain a bolt action for me.
Thanks again! Only at A.H. could this kind of a discussion and information be available to a potential buyer!
Thats right guys, walk away from them doubles....:tongue: You dont want these rifles, i'll take them all for you. You dont need them at all!
GSTONE i think you are missing the point here. a well regulated double is more than accurate enough for the type of shooting they are designed/used for. i have shot animals at 130 yards with my 9.3 double , but the bigger bores are mostly used under 50 yards and going down to end of the muzzle situations, where 2 aimed shots can be got off very quickly . most people dont need a double as their bolt actions will be used a lot more, but some people love using them and are happy to work within the doubles limitations. i would be very happy doing a hunt with my 9.3x74r and .470 doubles, and wouldnt be bothered that i couldnt take a 200 yard plus shot....in the places i have hunted in africa i dont think i have shot anything at more than 150yards, so the 9.3 would be fine. thinking about it the 9.3 would be fine to 200yards i think, never tried it so something to do
I see the point of having a double rifle...which is the reason I was following this post. I thought the Sabatti was a possibility, but it appears there are some issues I did not expect with that rifle. If I were a lot younger, I could justify the expense of obtaining a better quality double rifle...but this year will be my last rifle hunt to Africa. I am 67 years old and cannot justify the expense for a rifle that I will only use once. I appreciate all the information, but a double rifle is just not in my future
I agree with spike.t, I 'm in love with my Winch 70 SE .375 H&H, but a double (only side by side) is a myth, associated with african big game hunts, another dream!!
That's not the same use and not the same philosophy, they are complementary.
I have rifles, I dream to own a true african double .... Santa Clauss has certainly lost my e-mail ....
Then wait til I post some NEW pics here in a week or two! hehehehe
Until then have a look at some of my doubles in the "album" in the top right of my post.
Thanks for your album, quite interesting.
On a pic , you're shooting with a 4 bore ...:clap: and two pics further a "kulabara" pic's : overkill no ?
anf two pics further again, bones and skull scattered .... overkill again ...:clap:
What's the weight of an australian bull ? impressive !!!!!!
Re hello AkMike,
I'd seen into your album pics of a Pedersoli Kodiak. Is it your own ?
I saw JC Shotwell & Sons (? France) make with Pedersoli a Kodiak cal. .450 NE Hornady ...:tongue: but ...if ... & if ...
( about 4000/4500 USD )
It seem they are to the SCI show today ... ???? reliable enterprise ? ?? reliable double ??? available ???
What's your opinion about the Pedersoli Kodiak ?
I stopped at the VC booth at DSC this year "just to look" and the salesman pulled out one in 303 BRIT that fit almost perfect and then he said, (famous last words) "try this one in 470 NE" of course same fit, almost perfect.
Only problem?? The wifey was with me and saw the price tag. The look reminded me of looking at a buff staring back in the jess! If looks could kill I'd be dead right now.
If it makes you feel better Cliffy....I've seen that same look from my wife! Only I was looking at a Kreigoff 470 double!
The picture were of my trip to Oz last summer and just some misc. shots taken there. That 4 bore belongs to a local man here and is quite impressive! That guy shooting was our guide down there. I thought you might be interested in the way the old timers hunted.
IIRC those buffs weight up to 900 kgs. Check with google to make sure. I was told that they're bigger bodied that the Cape Buffs of Africa.
I liked the Pedersoli rifle. But mine was a.9.3X74. I've seen a write up somewhere about this conversion to 450 NE. IIRC they hand finished them to a 450. I have read of some that converted the 45-70 to the 450Ne #2 and that worked for them. I thought the Stillwell rifles were around 6K euros price though. Stock Pedersoli's are $3-4 K here now.
Akmike your everywhere my friend, hows that ole 450-500NE hammer gun express my brother sold you shooting? Is that it on Cal Pappes web page? Its a shooter!
At any rate, got to agree here, I try to get my guns to 2" composite, with clover leaf individual barrel groups. It takes lots of time and many micro adjustments to achieve this. The key, as a gun maker, is to break the barrel in first and correctly. Then regulate, my guess is Sabatti skipped this important step and paid the price.
Well, Hi Jason!
I haven't seen you around very much.
No I haven't given him any pictures of that rifle. He's seen it though. IIRC I took it up to his place for a DR shoot a year ago. It still works great.
I do have the Searcy shown on his site and probably need to hone my photography skill to add others.
Are you still reworking them too?
Every now again I make one, I have a 577 I built on a Jana 10ga that is just a blast to shoot. I'm looking to maybe sale it to fund a trip Africa. I have another action I picked up a while ago to build another one. The one I have was originally built for Tom Ondress, but he passed before I could finish it.
A full nitro 577 or a BPE rated? Sleeved or lined?
I talked to your brother about his Hartmann 577, but the stock is way too short for me.
edit; I sent you a PM here.
I've noticed over the last few years that folks often compare the groups we shoot with doubles and with groups made with bolt and single shot guns. Usually the MOA issue comes up. A few things separate these apples and grapefuits. Most groups from single shots and bolt guns that folks talk about and post pictures of, are shot from rests on sand bags or mechanical rests, with scopes. Most doubles are open sighted, but sometimes have scopes attached. By design, the double is a field gun and shoots best when not tucked into sandbags. They tend not to shoot to the same place when tucked into sandbags, at least mine didn't. So they are shot either off sticks or offhand, with only the shooters body touching the gun. Another thing to remember is that a double is usually two rifles soldered together, that are designed to place the bullets beside each other. I've only owned two doubles, so far. Both have been 9.3x74, so my experience is a bit limited. I spent a good bit of time and powder on the Chapuis. When fired off sticks, I got that I could put three shots from either barrel into 1.5 inches at fifty yards, and the two groups would overlap to about 2 1/2 inches, off sticks. Offhand, I could keep them on a little paper plate or a little pumpkin swinging on a rope. I did some comparisons with some of my bolt guns, that are MOA. I put on a lower powered scope and shot them the same way (only my hand on the forend, wobbling all over the place). It was a bit better, but not that much. Groups were only slightly smaller. When I held the bolt rifle down more solidly in the sticks, groups got smaller. It was the operator, not the rifle.
One other thing I've noticed so far with double rifles, you tend to get what you pay for. Not a put down on any brand, but don't expect the same quality for $2000 that you get for $8 or $10,000. On the other hand, it's better to have one than not. It's just that they are soo expensive to make well.
Just some thoughts.
I sure hope I don't have any problems when I get my Heym 88 450/400 out in a few months. Hope she does like she supposed too.
You bought my dream gun, I doubt she'll let you down....you have a nice gun collection!
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