The Price of Importation?

[Hank2211]

There has been a lot of talk recently in various forums (fora?) about the price of hunting "importable" animals - by which is meant, importable into the US. The trend seems to be that the fewer the countries which can offer importable species, the higher the prices of those species becomes.

Something just came across my email which has got me thinking that this might be getting out of hand.

I received an email from an agent who is offering an elephant hunt in South Africa, for a particular elephant, carrying an estimated 70 lbs of ivory, which the outfitter claims is importable into the US. The price of the hunt - which includes a baby elephant - you get to shoot a 10 pounder as well - is - wait for it:

1 trophy bull PLUS 1 smaller bull
It is for 10 days
1X1 Guiding
All meals and lodging included
ONE ONLY!!- $280k USD

Just for fun, I looked up how much Buzz Charlton would charge for a bull elephant hunt in Zimbabwe, which is not importable. 14 days plus the trophy fee comes to $32,500. Add a tuskless (instead of the baby) and the price is $37,500. There is no guarantee of a particular weight in the Zim hunt, but there is always a chance of that weight or better in Zimbabwe, depending on the concession (I got a 55 pounder in Matetsi, and might have done better, but I'm not know for patience).

I'm sure part of the price of the RSA hunt is a perceived "safety" premium (although I question whether South Africa is really safer than Zim), but the cost of this hunt is 7.5 times the Zim hunt. Imagine what you could hunt if you were given a "free" $212,500?

How much is an "importable" animal really worth?

 

[BRICKBURN]

 

[Wheels]

Hank, you run in some highfalutin circles to get solicitations like that.

I only get solicitations for spring hare and dassies.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I thought about this for a while and it slowly came to pass in my little mind, that it is perhaps not the importation, but the previously scaled weight of the ivory that might be attracting a particular segment of the market. That is, "certainty" vs "importation". Although, they do accompany one and other quite well.

 

[Royal27]

I think Wayne nailed it. It is both importation and what sounds like a guaranteed weight.

And then there is actually selling the hunt. An outfitter can ask, but will he get it?

So I think the real "import tax" is the average price, not something crazy like that. In other words what does a hunt in SA or Namibia go for versus Zim? I did some quick down and dirty math over a year ago and as I recall figured the "import tax" for a SA hunt was under $20k as I recall. That was comparing a Kruger hunt to some Zim deals, so your mileage may very.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Baby elephant as in for real an immature ele, or just small tusks?

 

[Divernhunter]

Hunting is becoming more and more a sport for the rich.
Thank God there is still hunts us lowly people can do, even if not for some species we might like to hunt.

 

[rookhawk]

Here's the secret: it's not advertising a hunt.

I have PH friends in Zim and they tell me that it's all going to the Chinese. They've had clients that didn't want to shoot and didn't care for guns, they just want the ivory.

Their custom is to come for a hunt, return to China with ivory, sell one tusk, cover the hunt cost, hold the other tusk for personal investment.

The fact it's guaranteed weight and easy fly in, fly out is seeking someone that wants ivory and can solicit the sale of it ahead of time and/or obtain financial backing from rich Chinese compatriots.

This wasn't an advert for a rich DSC oil man from Texas, it was for the Chicoms.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Here's the secret: it's not advertising a hunt.

I have PH friends in Zim and they tell me that it's all going to the Chinese. They've had clients that didn't want to shoot and didn't care for guns, they just want the ivory.

Their custom is to come for a hunt, return to China with ivory, sell one tusk, cover the hunt cost, hold the other tusk for personal investment.

The fact it's guaranteed weight and easy fly in, fly out is seeking someone that wants ivory and can solicit the sale of it ahead of time and/or obtain financial backing from rich Chinese compatriots.

This wasn't an advert for a rich DSC oil man from Texas, it was for the Chicoms.

If that is the case, that crap needs shut down quick!

 

[cpr0312]

+1

 

[Hank2211]

Hank, you run in some highfalutin circles to get solicitations like that.

I only get solicitations for spring hare and dassies.

Wheels, you should be grateful you don't get these - I only get them as a tease, I think.

Baby elephant as in for real an immature ele, or just small tusks?

Phil, I call it a baby. The email said the tusks could weigh as much as 10 pounds - on a bull. That's a baby in my view, or maybe, I guess, an old bull who has lost his ivory.

I think Wayne nailed it. It is both importation and what sounds like a guaranteed weight.

And then there is actually selling the hunt. An outfitter can ask, but will he get it?

So I think the real "import tax" is the average price, not something crazy like that. In other words what does a hunt in SA or Namibia go for versus Zim? I did some quick down and dirty math over a year ago and as I recall figured the "import tax" for a SA hunt was under $20k as I recall. That was comparing a Kruger hunt to some Zim deals, so your mileage may very.

This could be it Royal, although as you point out, it's still not even in the ballpark for these types of hunts.

Here's the secret: it's not advertising a hunt.

I have PH friends in Zim and they tell me that it's all going to the Chinese. They've had clients that didn't want to shoot and didn't care for guns, they just want the ivory.

Their custom is to come for a hunt, return to China with ivory, sell one tusk, cover the hunt cost, hold the other tusk for personal investment.

The fact it's guaranteed weight and easy fly in, fly out is seeking someone that wants ivory and can solicit the sale of it ahead of time and/or obtain financial backing from rich Chinese compatriots.

This wasn't an advert for a rich DSC oil man from Texas, it was for the Chicoms.

You may be right Rookhawk. This was certainly the game with rhino for a while, until the South African government put a stop to it (can you say Dawe Grunevald - sorry for the spelling!).

The only thing which makes me question this is that the email came from a reputable agent, American and based in the US, and a lot of the email was taken up with the importation into the US issue.

If I had to guess, I would say they are trying it on for size, to see if some American will pay to hunt a pre-selected elephant with guaranteed minimum ivory, and bring it home. There were a couple of black rhino hunts offered on this site a while ago for prices over $300K. This could be more of the same.

Either way, it seems to have little to do with hunting, at least to me.

 

[CAustin]

I think Wayne nailed it. It is both importation and what sounds like a guaranteed weight.

And then there is actually selling the hunt. An outfitter can ask, but will he get it?

So I think the real "import tax" is the average price, not something crazy like that. In other words what does a hunt in SA or Namibia go for versus Zim? I did some quick down and dirty math over a year ago and as I recall figured the "import tax" for a SA hunt was under $20k as I recall. That was comparing a Kruger hunt to some Zim deals, so your mileage may very.

Like you say they can ask but will they get it! On the other point made in this thread....do the Chinese really pay $280 for one tusk? Really.

 

[sierraone]

If what Rookhawk and Hank point out is all true, what in the world will be next? These people are antis without even knowing they are antis! I'm guessing you could hunt most all the huntable species in Africa for $280,000!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Like you say they can ask but will they get it! On the other point made in this thread....do the Chinese really pay $280 for one tusk? Really.

I presume you meant $280K for one tusk. But if it's worth significantly more than that then yes, yes they would. Simple matter of return on investment.

 

[CAustin]

That is exactly what I said Phil! You presume correctly. Do those people In The "land of China", as mr Gump would say, really pay $280 k for one tusk? I understand ROI fairly well given that I run a $200+ million dollar business, but damn I had no idea that ivory sold for that kind of money!
I thought that kind of money was paid for just rhino horn. Mercy!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

That is exactly what I said Phil! You presume correctly. Do those people In The "land of China", as mr Gump would say, really pay $280 k for one tusk? I understand ROI fairly well given that I run a $200+ million dollar business, but damn I had no idea that ivory sold for that kind of money!
I thought that kind of money was paid for just rhino horn. Mercy!

Sorry Charlie, but the post I quoted of yours said $280. Sometimes too much of a stickler for details I guess I am.

 

[CAustin]

That is the engineer side of your brain working Phil. Or maybe the Jedi side. I left off the k!

 

[Nyati]

It seems that the going price for one Kg. of ivory in Beijing is $1.100, so I don´t see it as a business for the chinese.

 

[CAustin]

So a 70 pound tusk would be about 31 Kg times $1100 per Kg equals about
$34,100. If all the math is right and the price in China is correct Nyatti would be correct that this is not a business deal.

The price of the hunt then has to be more about getting a BIG tusker. Any way I look at a hunt priced at $280,000 it's out of my reach and always will be.
Hank nailed it in the start of the thread......let's go hunt with Buzz Charlton in Zim.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I wonder if all of this discussion was caused by a typo in the price?