Status of Possible CITES I Uplisting for Lion

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by Cleathorn, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. Cleathorn

    Cleathorn AH Senior Member

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    I have been searching all of the literature about lion hunting throughout Africa recently and I am not to proud to admit that I am confused and unable to figure out the truth. I could really use the good information that I have seen on this forum to help me understand the possibility, or liklihood, that lions will be uplisted to CITES I status at the 2010 CITES convention to be held in March or May, depending on who you believe.

    I have hunted big game in many places. I am now looking to Africa as my next destination. I want to pursue the Big 5, and then complete the Dangerous 7. I already have a combination Elephant, Leopard and Cape Buffalo hunt scheduled for September 2010.

    I have been looking at various opprotunities to hunt Rhino and lion to complete my Big 5. I have settled on a "green hunt" with a bow for the Rhino - for personal reasons I will not kill a Rhino when a viable and sporting (in my sole opinion) option exists. That is just me and I do not mean to start any discussion on that topic.

    Lion hunting now seems to be a confused and contenscious issue. I am aware of the changes to regulations and the Court battles in South Africa about captive bred lions. That seems to dominate many discussion boards. But to me, the much bigger issue seems to be the possibility that lions will be uplisted to CITES Appendix I at the 2010 meeting, which was originally set for January, then moved to March and rumors seem to be that it will occur in May.

    If lions are uplisted to CITES I, lion hunting effectivly ends in Africa. The US will never issue a CITES I import permit, not without years of taxpayer dollar "studies."

    These are very expensive hunts. I would like to book now, and outfitters in every country where lions can be hunted have expressed interest in booking me into their camp, but little seems to be said about the CITES I uplisting issue.

    Does anyone have reliable information on the status of the lion uplisting issue? I know it has come up in the past, and will probably continue into the future, but is there a general "feeling" in the Safari community one way or the other about the possible uplisting issue occuring in 2010?

    With a hunt that costs upwards of $50K on the line, the possiblity that the convention could meet in May and change the rules to effectivly prohibit the import into the US seems like it should be among the hotest topics on African hunting.

    Am I missing something here? I would appreciate the insight of anyone with information about the potential uplisting of lions at the 2010 CITES convention.

    Thanks. This is a great forum and I hope someone can help me understand this issue and find a way to complete the historical pinnacle of African Dangerous Game hunting.
  2. Calhoun

    Calhoun AH Enthusiast

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    ....Cleathorn I envy you having the opportunity to do these hunts & I also share your concerns. According to the Sept.Safari times Cites will meet in march. I would contact SCI National & ask for a phone # or e-mail address for Joe Hosmer the chairman of the Cites committee. If that doesn't get no reults get an e-mail address for Larry Rudolph the president & he will get you in touch with the person you need to speak to. The only thing is they are probably only speculating as you never know what the other country members will vote or say! Good Luck!!
  3. Thunder head

    Thunder head AH Enthusiast

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    Very good question.
    There seems to be alot of speculation and not much scientfic fact about the health of wild lion populations. I do know there is alot of concern over there welfare in kenya. It seems canine distemper is a problem. I dont know that you can trust the info coming out of kenya at all.
    Maybe you should ask the outfitters about refund policys. If they would put it in the contract for you to recieve a full refund if lions are listed. I would book your hunt now. The greenies would like nothing more than to put an end to any type of hunting they can.
  4. AfricaHunting.com

    AfricaHunting.com FOUNDER AH Ambassador

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    Cleathorn, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I cannot help you to clarify this. I too have read much about this issue and everything at this point is just pure speculation.

    There is a strong feeling out there that Lions may up listed to CITES I as you know, perhaps stronger than there has ever been. In my opinion it is not a matter of if they will be up listed but when...

    The issue of whether or not to plan a hunt for a Lion should not just be about whether or not you can get your deposit back if they get up listed but also if you end up taking a Lion legally and the rules change suddenly, will you be stuck the same way that many who took Polar Bears legally are now? They are fighting to be able to import their legally taken Polar Bear trophies back into the US... It's something to think about. Timing is of the essence and expediting the trophy export for the Lion should be a serious consideration as well. Plan ahead with your outfitter, local taxidermist (if any for dip and pack) and shipping / clearing agent if you decide to go...
  5. TOM

    TOM AH Elite

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    My feelings exactly Jerome. I am trying to get a hunt planned but as important as my planning is the shipping.
  6. AfricaHunting.com

    AfricaHunting.com FOUNDER AH Ambassador

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    Tom, definitely an important aspect to take care of if planing a Lion hunt at this time!
  7. Cleathorn

    Cleathorn AH Senior Member

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    Thanks Guys. I am hunting with a very reputable PH and we are hunting on a "no pay" system. His fees, including trophy fees and daily rates, are not paid until after the hunt. I offerred to post an Irrevocable Letter of Credit and all he asked for was a copy of my bank statement from the account the card will be drawn from. No lion means no trophy and more importantly, daily rates at 1/4 of the posted cost! No kidding - and its in writing.

    We are trying to work with the taxidermist now. Getting them too buy into doing anything 'right away' is nearly impossible.

    What we are looking at now (and I am serious) is to find out what essential actions for safe handling and export/import requirements are and putting the hide in on the plane and have fauna and flora import to me once in JFK. I will post what I hear or find out.
  8. TOM

    TOM AH Elite

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    Please do keep us posted. I will be interested to hear about this.

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