Should Jerome scrutinize outfitters credentials who post hunts?

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by RogerHeintzman, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. Royal27

    Royal27 BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    This is so true and something we forget, especially here in the U.S., in my opinion. we're so used to someone else "watching out for us" that we forget it is our responsibility to do the homework. And even then, there is still risk. I could do all my homework and still have some bad luck. It just happens.

    I also cannot imagine making an investment that costs as much as an African hunt without getting on the phone with someone at some point, but maybe that is just me?
     
  2. rphguy

    rphguy AH Enthusiast

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    we have a whole nation of people who voted for Obama (twice) that uses this as their s.o.p. It's someone else's job to take care of me. it's always somebody else's fault. Where is my earned income credit?
     
  3. Royal27

    Royal27 BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    Of course if Jerome were to police this for us he would also need to go ahead and take our guns away from us, you know, to protect us from ourselves. It would be in our best interest, really.

    :rolleyes:
     
  4. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    It could save you a lot on trophy fees! I think they call them Photographic Tours.
    I hear there are plenty of opportunities now in Botswana!
     
  5. Royal27

    Royal27 BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    Oh no Brickburn, we would still pay the trophy fees. Those fees will be needed to send the people who don't want to work for it over to Africa. How else will they be able to afford it if we don't pay our "fair share"???
     
  6. rphguy

    rphguy AH Enthusiast

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    one way ticket???
     
  7. lcq

    lcq AH Veteran

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    That is precisely why I am booking my first hunt with a booking agent, EAI in my case. They are a BBB member which gives a neophyte like me a measure of comfort and they are a North American company. About a month to go for me and I can't wait.

    BTW I have been having problems getting on the site for ages, has there been another attack?

     
  8. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    I don't see how an Agent should be regarded as a safer bet....... sorry but to me it is not an overwhelmingly valid point.

    Booking a safari directly with an outfitter or an agent...... well to me it's a coin toss, I have no problems with agents do not get me wrong, but assuming that booking with an agent is a safer bet as they have done their homework with regards to Outfitters they represent and thereby basing a decision on rather booking with such an agent.....

    That's is some serious assuming...... outfitters are often also misrepresented by agents.

    I put it to you like this...... if Jon Peckerwood from SA travels over the mighty oceans to spend around a $100 000 every year on marketing you will have a good time, investing that much money directly into your company, you will be damn sure to deliver top shelf service and quality and guaranteed not to misrepresented yourself.

    Stating that agents are a safer bet is imo a bit of an insult :):):) to outfitters such as myself and many others :):):) i can smile about it though :):):):)

    Home work home work home work....... whether you are booking with an agent or an OUTFITTER

    my very best always
     
  9. lcq

    lcq AH Veteran

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    You don't get to be a BBB A+ member if you get complaints. Nuff said
     
  10. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    Some of you are just way too trusting of agents. Some have looked good on paper or the Internet but when I met them in person...Oh boy, felt I talked to used car salesperson. Some hunts they knew well, others not too much. There are some really good outfitter references in AH, I would look them over before going elsewhere for information.
     
  11. jduckhunter

    jduckhunter AH Veteran

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    Please don't put a lot of faith in the BBB, I and a bunch of other local merchants have found it to be a joke.
     
  12. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Well in that case you don't invest a $100 000 k a year in marketing in one country and continue to do so if you plan on doing or do bad business...

    NUFF SAID?

    MY BEST TO YOU ALWAYS
     
  13. Hank2211

    Hank2211 GOLD SUPPORTER AH Veteran

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    My first two hunts were with a booking agent in the US. Same reasoning as Icq. Both hunts had problems. Agent's answer was always the same - We'll give you 10% (or whatever) of the next hunt. On those two hunts I got to know some people in Africa and since then have always booked through them or people they have recommended to me. Not had any real issues since.

    Point is not that agents are necessarily bad, just that using one doesn't eliminate the need to due homework. In fact, I would (now, with experience) argue that you need to do more homework, because with an agent you generally know very little about the people who will make or break your hunt - the actual outfit in Africa you will be hunting with.

    If I had to name three factors that are more responsible for a good or bad hunt than any other, the agent would not usually be among them. They would be firstly the PH, then PH, and lastly, the PH. If you get along with your PH, he and his team will work hard for you, and will deal with problems as they arise.
     
  14. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Senior Member

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    Personally, I would prefer to talk with someone who has hunted with the outfitter/PH before spending the necessary time and money for a hunt. It may take some more legwork, phone calls or personal contact with other hunters but for me it's the best way to steer clear of the flim fllammers. Checking sites such as this or others is only a START of the research.
     
  15. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    I could not agree more, references are just as important in booking a safari with a booking agent, not just in general but for the exact company that they are contracting for your safari...

    It is no safer nor better booking a safari with a booking agent than directly with an outfitter.

    Consumers should do their homework regardless.... As mentioned above it has been proven time and time again that sites such as AH provides a wealth of info in an easy accessible data base.

    Royal, I agree to a degree, a PH can spoil a safari but this is NOT as common phenomena... Checkout a couple of hunting reports often, PH's are still in Favor with outfitters out of it ....

    Very often agents fall out of favor by creating an unrealistic expectation for reality to dawn on a hunter upon arrival... In this case HO's and PH's stay in favor...

    It all depends on situations, but more often than not the ph's are not to blame, if they are it is often a two way street...

    Safari's do have problems, whether they are logistic by nature due to unexpected events, or miscommunication, it is how these problems are handled when they occur that set one apart from the rest.

    My best always
     
  16. PaulT

    PaulT AH Fanatic

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    Heed these words of wisdom and experience (above), and ignore them at your peril.

    The onus is on YOU ! BUYER BEWARE.

    There are unscrupulous outfitters out there who's sole intent is to sell you something they can't provide, but once they have your money YOUR SCREWED, fortunately they are a minority; but they ARE out there !

    Hunters are often "lured" into the mine pit by great "deals", please no mail regarding inexpensive hunts, that's an entire different subject.

    Bookings agents HAVE VARYING MOTIVES, and like outfitters, MOST are legitimate, professional and sincere.

    Others, (a minority), are only after reduced rate hunting for themselves, or their commission rate of the hunt cost.
    You should scrutinize your agent as thoroughly as you should scrutinize your outfitter.

    Check to see if your selected agent is full time professional or is this a side-kick extra cash book hunts for reduced rates deal ?
    Ask for references, recent references.
    Ask for your outfitters personal experience with the outfitter he is recommending.

    Do your homework and be prepared to accept the consequences.

    I am constantly contacted by hunters who were swayed by the better "deal" they got from another outfitter to ask if I have any influence over their chosen operator to help get their Trophies home after they have gone missing !

    Ofcourse, 9 times out of 10 that operator is going to tell me to f#*%$^& off and mind your own business.

    At the risk of repeating myself, do your homework guys.

    The lowest cost hunt in any particular region for any particular animal is not always necessarily the very best "deal".
     
  17. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Senior Member

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    Just to add on to my previous post. My thoughts also go for U.S. and Canada hunts. Two horror stories in my book, I met a hunter at my gun club who just came back from a moose hunt in Canada. They ate baloney sandwiches for breakfast, lunch, & dinner the first two days of the hunt. The excuses are too long to list. He killed a whopping "spike" moose and paid more than my first six animal plains trophy hunt. The trip was booked through a famous sporting goods superstore. Another from a good friend of mine, he booked a prairie dog hunt. He was taken to the dogtowns by his guide who promptly drove away. Subsequently he was chased away by the landowner. A phone call to the "guide" for further instructions led him to another spot with the same result. Again, unless I can talk to the person or have a personal reference (a GOOD one), my hard earned money goes elsewhere. Caveat Emptor. It's not in Latin for no reason. :)
     
  18. SCJagter

    SCJagter AH Member

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    Hogpatrol and PaulT and Jaco you have said it best! Shame on the person who just trusts a random person to take control of their money and their dream...

    I cant tell you how many times I have sat at a hunting camp with all sorts of people from all over the world and stories of failed hunts and trips and all the horror that goes along with it comes up because it always does.

    People are quick to just let someone else deal with it, plan it, organize it, and hope that everything is taken care of.. WHY NOT you are on vacation and you are paying for a service! Until everything goes wrong!!

    I believe (after being burned on more than one occasion) you should never book a hunt or service with anyone, unless you have at least three or more third party references that you trust will not steer you astray. (And even then it is no guarantee! People will be people)

    It is not the responsibility of Brokers/Agents, Outfitters, PH's and forum moderators to keep the industry accountable they have enough trying to make a living in a very competitive business but it is our responsibility as hunters who pay vast sums of money to take our business elsewhere and let others know to do the same and keep the crooked people out of business and the honest people in business.
     

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