Shotgun magazine capacity in RSA

Discussion in 'Before & After the Hunt' started by ArmyGrunt, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. ArmyGrunt

    ArmyGrunt AH Veteran

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    I am starting to plan a trip to RSA. First time hunter, first time to Africa. I have the KelTec shotgun, (KSG). The magazine capacity is 15 rounds of 2 3/4 inch shells, 13 rounds of 3 inch shells, and 25 rounds of the 2 inch shells. Obviously, those numbers aren't cumulative - can't get 53...

    The PH/Outfitter I've been talking to says shotgun is definitely useable for smaller animals, like the warthog and meerkat I'd like to get. My question to the forum is:

    Can I take this weapon to RSA? Are there any restrictions to capacity in that area? I know in several states in the US you can only have 3-5 rounds in your shotgun while hunting. This gun is a 12 guage, pump action, bullpup design. For those of you who haven't seen it, the shells load and eject from the same port at the rear of the gun, behind your shooting hand. Tons of fun to shoot, and you can find copious amounts of videos on the web of reviews, and shooting it.

    https://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/ksg/shotgun/
    ksg.jpg
     
  2. bluey

    bluey GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    that must a whole lot of fun duck opening ,bloke
    don't know about African law , but strweth , they would lynch you for that thing in australia ,mate
    no way are we allowed to have that much fun..........
     
  3. Bushwack

    Bushwack AH Fanatic

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    bloody hell, i like this!!
     
  4. rnovi

    rnovi AH Veteran

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    Grunt, legality aside, shotguns with buckshot aren't a good idea for Warthogs. If you want to go that route, definitely work on the slug line of thinking.

    Anyway, Wikipedia comments:

    License to possess firearm for occasional hunting and sports-shooting[edit]
    This license allows the holder to possess any:

    handgun which is not fully automatic;
    rifle or shotgun which is not fully or semi-automatic;
    The Registrar may issue a license in terms of this section to any:

    natural person who is an occasional hunter or occasional sports person (ex. A person who participates in target shooting but is not an official member of an official target shooting club or a person who participates in hunting but is not an official member of an official hunting club)

    License to possess firearm for dedicated hunting and dedicated sports-shooting[edit]
    This license allows the holder to possess any:

    handgun which is not fully automatic;
    rifle which is not fully automatic;
    shotgun which is not fully automatic;
    semi-automatic shotgun manufactured to fire no more than five shots;


    and other info:

    Semi Automatic Shotguns or Handguns

    For Semi-Automatic shotguns or handguns, you must supply a letter of motivation stating the reason for wanting to bring a semi-automatic/handgun to hunt in South Africa. It must be an original request; with an acceptably good reason otherwise consideration will not be granted. If you wish to bring a Semi-Automatic shotgun for bird shooting, or a custom made handgun the application should arrive 35 days prior to arrival at the Agents office

    Ok, just my own personal opinion: The Keltec is massively TactiCool, but I'd leave it behind and go with a good ol Remington 870 or other such common shottie.
     
  5. ArmyGrunt

    ArmyGrunt AH Veteran

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    Thanks for the in depth intel. And your opinion, but on that note: is the 18" barrel on an Remington more accurate than the 18" barrel on the Keltec? Not trying to be rude. I've seen so many people exhibit the same mindset. The maker of the weapon doesn't guarantee a better gun just because they have been in business for a longer period. There is a YouTube video of a prison special forces team doing torture testing where they trhow the ksg, drop it from the second floor onto concrete, slide it down the stairs, and it still functions flawlessly. The shotgun debate can go as deep and long *giggle* as any other... this rifle vs that one. this bullet vs that one. It all boils down to opinion. And that's what I love about the world today. We all get our own, and get to express them.
    Cheers!
     
  6. ArmyGrunt

    ArmyGrunt AH Veteran

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    Thanks for the in depth intel. And your opinion, but on that note: is the 18" barrel on an Remington more accurate than the 18" barrel on the Keltec? Not trying to be rude. I've seen so many people exhibit the same mindset. The maker of the weapon doesn't guarantee a better gun just because they have been in business for a longer period. There is a YouTube video of a prison special forces team doing torture testing where they throw the KSG, drop it from the second floor onto concrete, slide it down the stairs, and it still functions flawlessly. The shotgun debate can go as deep and long *giggle* as any other... this rifle vs that one..:guns::guns:. this bullet vs that one. It all boils down to opinion. And that's what I love about the world today. We all get our own, and get to express them.
    Cheers!:tongue::gunshooting:
     
  7. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    I would bring a regular shotgun, the last thing you want to do in a foreign country is argue about the use of a gun....think about it??? We live in the USA, we have it pretty good gun wise, most other countries....not so much.
     
  8. rnovi

    rnovi AH Veteran

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    As it pertains to the Keltec, I'm with Enysse. Para-military, military, or just plain "nasty aggressive" looking rifles are HIGHLY frowned upon. As a for instance: don't even try to bring an AR-15/10 (semi auto) to Africa. At best you will merely have the rifle confiscated. At worst, you're going to jail. In a bad way.

    IMO, the Keltec just isn't worth the risk.

    Onto the question of bbl' length: why 18"? Why not just buy a 2-barrel Remington 870 combo set that comes with a short bbl for defense and a long bbl for hunting?

    I mean, I have to ask the real question: what exactly are you trying to achieve with an 18" short barreled shotgun? If you want to look the part of a tacti-cool hunter you're just asking for trouble in a country where you are a foreigner ignorant of their rules. You won't find much forgiveness?or will the local constabulary give you any benefit for being American. In general, being an American isn't always a positive in the outside world.

    IMO, draw less attention, be aware, be polite, and be aware of the rules (always err in the side of caution). Don't push the limits.

    So, do tell: what exactly are you trying to achieve with an 18" shottie in a foreign country?
     
  9. ArmyGrunt

    ArmyGrunt AH Veteran

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    I'm trying to get a fun hunt, and not buy more toys. The KSG is the only shotgun I have.
    18" isn't a short barreled shotgun, it's the minimum required by the ATF and NFA. How much difference is there between an 18" bbl and 20" bbl? Pretty much nothing. I also don't feel like I fit in the tacti-cool category. I bought that gun bc I liked it. It's fun to shoot, hits where I aim it.

    My plan is to try for a warthog and a meerkat while I'm there, and I suppose the 30-06 would be way overkill for the little guys. Maybe not. The oranges I shot last week with it were not totally destroyed...
     
  10. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    I'm not questioning your intentions.

    Maybe one of the outfitters will chime and say it will be allowed into RSA? And it maybe will be allowed for bribe money, bring 20's.
     
  11. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Senior Member

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    I'm trying to find the link but I read somewhere in RSA "NO self defense weapons allowed", shotguns for wingshooting ONLY. From my limited experience with one hunt in RSA and talking with my PH about ARs, semi-autos and other such weapons, your "shotgun" is a definite NO NO.
     
  12. rnovi

    rnovi AH Veteran

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    AG,

    " 18" isn't a short barreled shotgun, it's the minimum required by the ATF and NFA."

    I hate to break it to you but the RSA doesn't care about ATF and NFA or their rules.

    PS: Why not check with your Outfitter and see if they have a shotgun for rent?
     
  13. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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  14. cptkirk

    cptkirk AH Senior Member

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    I don't know if you have ever shot anything with a 12 GA shotgun slug but it makes one hell of a large nasty hole in a deer. It would probably be okay on a warthog but it would disassembled a Meerkat sized animal. Double 00 buckshot has pellets that are .28 cal if I remember right which would blow right through a Meerkat. .28 cal or .30 cal are pretty close size wise. If you go with smaller shot, say BB's or #2's you lose a considerable amount of range meaning you will need to be close, 50 yards or less. I have shot a few annoying squirrels with my 30.06 and they basically just go right through. The exit holes are not that big since the bullet has no real chance to expand much. You also have to remember that the vast majority of hunters using a shotgun for bird and such are using 5 shot semis, pumps, and 2 shot over and unders. For this reasons alone you are out of the norm and will get a suspicious eye cast upon you. Why paint a target on yourself and risk screwing up an expensive hunt with a fight with the RSA coppers. It just is not worth it. If you go to a gun store you can probably get a used Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 for a couple of hundred bucks (peanuts in the scheme of things) and both are very reliable workhorse shotguns which will serve your needs well for a long time. My 870 is a tack driver shooting slugs at 100 yards with iron sights.
     
  15. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    Would make awesome footage :popcorn:
     
  16. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Senior Member

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    I've got three newbies, two of which have never been anywhere, going with me to RSA next month. They're still under the impression they're going to Disneyworld. I told them to make sure they have the proper U.S. Embassy phone number in their phones. They might need it. :rolleyes: To the OP: This isn't Kansas, Toto.;)
     
  17. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    You should have been at Tambo before they renovated it! Chaos!
     
  18. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    ArmyGrunt that keltec would be nice in the vehicle to put off carjackers,for burglars or close up antipoaching , but these days i wouldnt bother taking it overseas as it doesnt look like a shotgun that the police/customs officers you will deal with will have ever seen, and the last thing you want is to spend a few hours explaining yourself at the start of your trip. as has been said see if your ph/outfitter has a shotgun or .22lr you can use. if the only thing you want to shoot with a shotgun is someone from "meerkat manor" then i cant see the point of lugging a shotgun all that way just for that. if you do then go the 870 or 500 mossberg route.
     
  19. ArmyGrunt

    ArmyGrunt AH Veteran

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    To all: I really appreciate the useful comments and discussion. I'm a newbie, as you've all likely figured, and I was curious if it would be an ok thing. I have Patrick Reynecke looking at things on his end, but it does sound like I'll have to leave this toy at home.

    rnovi: I know RSA doesn't care about our rules here in the States, I was just pointing out that short barreled shotgun is categorized by barrel length here, not the overall package.

    Not trying to sound rude.
     
  20. rnovi

    rnovi AH Veteran

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    AG, no offense taken. I've seen how transgressors are treated in foreign countries and I'd rather you not have to experience that. More accurately, I want to read a great hunt report from you that doesn't start with "well, I spent my first three nights in The RSA from a cold cell..."
     

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