SAFETY WARNING!

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by PaulT, Apr 3, 2014.

  1. PaulT

    PaulT AH Fanatic

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    WARNING!!

    As I was unable to find a forum dealing specifically with firearms safety, I trust that the moderators will move this thread to the appropriate section.

    Before that happens, I have placed it here, initially,hoping that as many shooters/hunters as possible see this? and that perhaps any repeat incidents are avoided.

    I want to state now that I will not be drawn in to answering PM's, e-mails or q's from this thread requesting further information regarding this incident, as I was not present at the incident and have no factual knowledge to confirm which of the multitude of potential causes of this incident were responsible.

    I do not want to minimize this incident for the person involved and would also not want to potentially jeopardize any legals that may/may not follow.

    I just don't want to see this happen to anyone else and if this post prompts users to check their firearms and prevents even one repeat episode we will all be better off.

    I also wish to state that I am not driving any particular equipment design, or brand, agenda here other than highlighting a POTENTIAL SAFETY HAZARD, and what may be a potentially disastrous situation for the unwary.
    Today I witnessed the results of a bolt coming straight back through the face of the shooter behind it.

    The results being quite devastating, (and I would suggest coming close to being fatal).

    I urge all of you operating ANY (of which there are several)straight-pull bolt-gun systems, take-down rifles and rifles with interchangeable barrels REGARDLESS OF BRAND OR MODEL to check your RIFLE ORHAVE IT CHECKED THOROUGHLY BY A COMPETENT GUNSMITH FOR ANY POTENTIAL FLAWS AND HAVE IT CHECKED (SAFELY) FOR A POTENTIAL TO FIRE WHEN NOT FULLY CLOSED,REGARDLESS OF CLAIMS MADE BY THE MANUFACTURER OF THAT PARTICULAR FIREARM.

    I appreciate that the occurrence of this type of incident may not be limited to the particular designs of firearms I have highlighted in this post and/or a result of the firearm itself, therefore it may be a timely reminder to all of us to ensure our firearms are in good, safe working order and that we hand-load responsibly and safely.

    Thank-you all for your patience and, I hope, your compliance to my request that we all enjoy our sport as safely as possible.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2014
  2. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    Sadly it is not the first time it has happened with a straight pull gun....
     
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  3. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    That sounds foreboding.

    This is the perfect place for the post.

    Any other details on an incident??
     
  4. Nyati

    Nyati AH Legend

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    Such an incident happened with a Blaser R93 in July 2009, at a shooting range called Canto Blanco, near Madrid, Spain, of which I am a member.

    I was not present, but a shooter I know was. As Paul said, the results are devastating, in this case the shooter received horrific wounds and lost his eyesight.

    The matter is still in the hands of justice, so there are no more details to be shared.
     
  5. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    A Norwegian got have his face smashed by the bolt of a Blaser R93 in 2003. He got really serious injuries including losing one eye.
    There are at least 8 other similar accidents with the Blaser R93 and of course Blaser blames it all on the ones using the guns.
    Funny enough did Blaser recall many R93s to equip them with a new straight pull mechanism. Strange thing to do if there was nothing wrong with them..

    Would be really interesting to know if the accident Paul talks about happened with a R93 or a newer straight pull model.

    I know about gunsmiths that will not do work on a R93 because of the risk getting the blame if an accident happens.
     
  6. Red Leg

    Red Leg GOLD SUPPORTER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Wow - first I am hearing all this. The Canadian Ross rifle (WWI era) had a reputation for doing this to the ocassional infantryman. Faulty reassembly of the bolt during cleaning was apparently the problem with them (and why I have never purchased one - though some lovely civilian ones appear on the auction sites from time - to - time.) I have spent the last hour prowling the net, and to say that the reason for the documented failures of the R93 is in dispute is an understatement - with the shooter claiming product defect and Blaser pointing to pretty extensive analysis showing excessive handload pressures.

    I don't have a dog in this hunt. I would note that it is possible to blow up any action with a hot enough load. It may be that a straight pull blow-up could see the bolt become a projectile. Mausers tend to behave like having a grenade go off in one's hand when they fail.
     
  7. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    First I have heard of this too! The only straight pull guns I have personal experience with is Swiss K31 rifles and the old Steyr M95 8x56. Suffice to say neither gave me any problem with limited usage. Just imagining the result of a bolt coming back into the face is enough to negate my ever owning a Blaser, dont like them anyway as I find them ugly beyond belief and seriously over priced. Get an old Jap service bolt rifle from WWII, the strongest action ever made, believe or not.
     
  8. Code4

    Code4 AH Enthusiast

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    R93 issues are not new news unfortunately. The R8 however has a better reputation. Blaser changed the lock up angle on the R8 but won't say why.

    Never use an aftermarket barrel in a Blaser and I'd be very carefull about using handloads in one too.
     
  9. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    Many gunsmiths here deny to attach a aftermarket barrel, a silencer, muzzle break or do any sort of chamber or bolt work on a R93.

    Even if the R8 might be much better and safer than the R93, I really don't see the point of risking it. I really don't like the idea about having the bolt stuck into my face.

    There are plenty of great normal bolt rifles around, and I really don't see the need or point of being able to reload 1/10th of a second faster(or less) than I already do with my bolt rifles.
    Then I might as well get a semi-auto rifle instead.
    Many semi-auto rifles are not very accurate, but the Sauer 303 is.
     
  10. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH Elite

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    Dear PaulT,

    What an important notice to the hunting world!
    Thank you for it.

    Fortunately for me specifically, (and evidently sestoppleman as well), I've always thought the whole line of straight-pull rifles (from the WW-1 Canadian Ross, Swiss K-31, Steyer 8x56, etc., through today's selection of Blazers, Merkels and similar straight pullers) are uglier than a pack of pit bulls with herpes.

    On that alone, I have never been tempted to even pick one up to examine, much less buy one.

    Furthermore, I stand with Norwegianwoods on the notion that there's no real point in being able to jack another round into the chamber, a fraction of a second faster than with a Mauser type turnbolt.

    I submit that with so many small/tedious moving parts, your mathematical odds of failure go up accordingly.
    (Just ask the men who've been nearly killed by such contraptions.)

    Plenty of manufacturer's marketing gimmicks on the market these days.

    Don't be fooled by their glowing claims that: If you buy our new product, you will enjoy success.

    Truth of the matter is: If we buy their newest inventions before the bugs are worked out, THEY will enjoy success for sure.

    By 1898, all Mauser bugs were thoroughly worked out, get yerself a 98 Mauser or, a reasonable variation of same (Pre-64 type Model 70, CZ 550 magnum, etc).

    Regards,
    Velo Dog.
     
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  11. quiettime

    quiettime New Member

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    I feel for the shooter, Thank you very much for the information. That kind of safety info is another reason to belong to this site, Keep up the good work.
     
  12. mlg

    mlg AH Member

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    If this is the incident with a 338 Lapua here is Australia there may be more to this than meets the eye.

    IF what I hear is true, and its from a couple of sources, the operator was apparently using commercially made hand loads and lubricating the bolt head with Hornady One Shot lube as he was having difficulty closing the bolt on the rounds.

    Is this what you heard or witnessed Paul?

    IF this is true - then its all a very sad, unfortunate avoidable accident.

    And the Blaser forum says pretty much the same thing - and that the bolt head was observed to be damaged AND that the shooter had had 2 case head separations shortly before the blow up.


    BlaserBuds.com Discussion Board ? View topic - Blaser Blow Up Australia
     
  13. BG338

    BG338 New Member

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    MGL - as for the .338 LM that Failed In Austrailia - What you Hear Is Not Correct - to which I know for a fact ! As i know the guy this happened to.

    The guy was not using Hornady one shot on , Or Remington Gun Oil or any other stupid stories you have heard - and of cause there are all these stupid stories going around like this yet - has no one stopped to think ?

    A guy that has the money and owns a rifle like this and can shot to the level that he does - ( I have seen his groups ) would you really think he be stupid enough to do what all these rumours are saying he did ?

    Think about it - who starts rumours to cover up shit ?

    Answer - People that have the most to loose ? $$$$$$$$$$$$$

    Pretty simple !!! Hey !!!!!!
     
  14. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Great first post??!?!?!?!?!
     
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  15. CAustin

    CAustin AH Fanatic

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    I always find first pits that are issue driven to be questionable!,,,???????
     
  16. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    The Blaser is not much else than a forum filled Blaser fan boys without the ability to be objective when it comes to Blaser products.
    I find it funny how all these fan boys jump the wagon to attack people criticizing a product.
    Like their favorite company can't do mistakes and make something that is not 100% perfect.
    And Blaser has for sure been quick to question the honesty and integrity of the person getting injured and has never said that it might have been a problem and they would look into it.
    They do what most companies do when sh*t hits the fan.
    Deny, discredit and run a smear campaign.

    Some of the Blaser accidents has happened when handloads have been used, but not all.
    And even if the shooter has been using handloads and maybe they have been a bit hot, we can't know if this has been the main culprit for their accidents.

    I have seen guns "blow up" because of mistakes done by the person behind the gun, but never with the results to the shooter as with the Blaser accidents.
     
  17. BG338

    BG338 New Member

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    Thanks bud ! I think is very funny and quit silly that anyone would even consider the fact that they guy was doing such a thing lol even more funny that these idiot believe these rumours !!!
     
  18. BG338

    BG338 New Member

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    Spot - on !!!!

    The fact of the matter is the Blaser Rifle Did Fail !!!!! The Hole Bolt can out the Back of the Gun and smashed the poor guy in the Face and Broke His Shoulder Bone !

    No Matter what this should never Happen !

    Either the bolt should stay in the gun or the if the Bolt is not locked in it Should Not FIRE ?

    Fact - is there has been to many issues for it - to be every shooter operator error !!!
     
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  19. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    BG, you are probably right about what you said per the unlikelihood that the shooter would be dumb enough to do as some have claimed. Just seemed to me and others that for a first post it was a bit caustic. But hey if you are here to post other than on a single issue, well, welcome to the forum!:D
     
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  20. Red Leg

    Red Leg GOLD SUPPORTER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Well, according to these posts I must be either a rumor believing idiot or some sort of band wagon groupie. However, I like Blaser Rifles. I also like Blaser shotguns. I have several colleagues who have used the R93 and R8 extensively and who swear by them. I have fired both in multiple calibers and I personally use an S2 extensively. They are universally reliable, they are almost boringly accurate, and I would not hesitate to take them on any hunt in any conditions. It is possible that an overload could indeed launch a straight pull bolt more easily than a turn bolt, but our ranges and shooting literature are littered with accounts of mausers that blew under enough pressure (they tend to take the form of a hand grenade - pick your poison). I was not there and did not personally investigate the actual incidents to which BG and 338 are referring. However, even a casual review of the posted literature will leave one with a conclusion that there is at least more than one side on this issue. It is perhaps noteworthy that I can find no evidence that Blaser has yet to be found liable in any civil action.
     
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