RECOIL!

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by michaelhh375, Mar 7, 2010.

  1. michaelhh375

    michaelhh375 AH Veteran

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    Fellow hunters ! This is very usefull information for all choices of caliber:
    RECOIL!

    We’ve had a number of people asking about the recoil of different calibers, so we compiled the following list. Please bear in mind that there are several factors affecting the "felt recoil" of any rifle that you shoot. These include the weight and shape of the stock and how they fit you. Also, I have found that on some days I feel the recoil of the rifles that I shoot more than others.

    All the following were worked through LOAD FROM A DISK program, other programs might give you different results. We tried to be as accurate as we possibly can. We used weights of rifles that we have on record, and we used powder charges and bullets pulled from factory ammo for our data entry.

    For some of the popular calibers we have included data on more than one bullet weight. The data in the last column was included at the urging of one of our geniuses here. He thought it would make it easier to understand. It is really nothing more than multiplying the recoil velocity by the recoil force. We’ve had quite a discussion on this subject, and we also decided, by a unanimous decision, to add the following advice to help you to interpret the following table.

    Any rifle that has a Recoil Factor of less than 100 can be shot by anyone that can handle a rifle.

    Between 100 and 200 is moderate.

    Between 200 and 300 is moderately heavy .

    Between 300 and 400 is heavy.

    Between 400 and 700 is very heavy.

    Between 700 and 1000 is extremely heavy.

    Between 1000 and 3000 very painful

    Anything over 4000, if you are seriously considering hunting with this rifle, then you are living a couple of million years out of date, as the dinosaurs do not exist today! And despite everything that has been written on the subject of "charge stopping" calibers, bullet placement and bullet performance is much more important than the actual caliber. I am not suggesting that you take your favourite deer hunting rifle and go chasing cape buffaloes or elephants with, just use some common sense.

    CALIBER
    RIFLE WEIGHT
    BULLET WEIGHT
    RECOIL VELOCITY
    RECOIL ENERGY
    RECOIL FACTOR



    • Caliber 17 REM
    Rifle weight 7
    Bullet weight 25
    Recoil velocity 4.1
    Recoil energy 1.8
    Recoil factor 7,4


    22 HORNET
    6.5
    45
    3.5
    1.3
    4.6


    222 REM
    7
    50
    4.8
    2.5
    12.0


    223 REM
    7
    55
    5.9
    3.8
    22.4


    22 PPC
    7.5
    52
    5.8
    3.7
    21.5


    22-250 REM
    7.5
    55
    7.0
    5.4
    37.8


    220 SWIFT
    7.5
    55
    7.6
    6.2
    47.1


    6MM BR REM
    8
    100
    6.8
    5.8
    39.4


    6MM PPC
    8
    70
    5.8
    4.2
    24.4


    6MM BR NORMA
    8
    107
    7.8
    7.6
    59.3


    243 WIN
    8
    100
    8.5
    8.9
    75.7


    6MM REM
    8
    100
    8.9
    9.9
    88.1


    257 ROBERTS
    8
    117
    9.1
    10.3
    93.7


    25-06 REM
    8
    120
    10.6
    13.8
    146.3


    257 WBY
    8.5
    100
    10.6
    14.8
    156.9


    257 SCRAMJET
    9
    100
    10.4
    15.1
    157.0


    6.5 X 55
    8.5
    140
    9.9
    13.0
    128.7


    260 REM
    8
    140
    10.0
    12.5
    125


    264 W MAG
    8.5
    140
    12.0
    18.9
    226.8


    6.71 BLACKBIRD
    9
    140
    13.2
    24.3
    320.7


    270 WIN
    8.5
    130
    10.7
    15.2
    162.6

    150
    11.2
    16.6
    185.9


    270 WBY
    8.5
    130
    11.9
    18.8
    223.7

    150
    12.7
    21.4
    271.8


    7 X 57
    8.5
    154
    10.1
    13.5
    136.4


    7MM-08 REM
    8
    120
    9.9
    12.2
    120.8

    154
    11.0
    14.9
    163.9


    280 REM
    8.5
    140
    11.2
    16.6
    185.9

    165
    12.0
    19.0
    228.0


    7MM R MAG
    8.5
    140
    12.3
    19.8
    243.5

    160
    12.8
    21.5
    275.2

    175
    13.3
    23.2
    308.6


    7MM WBY
    9
    140
    12.1
    20.3
    245.6

    160
    13.0
    23.7
    308.1

    175
    13.0
    23.5
    305.5


    7MM STW
    9
    140
    12.7
    22.6
    287.0

    160
    13.7
    26.3
    360.3


    7.21 FIREHAWK
    9
    140
    13.9
    27.0
    375.3


    308 WIN
    8.5
    55
    6.4
    5.5
    35.2

    150
    10.1
    13.4
    135.3

    168
    10.7
    15.0
    160.5

    180
    11.0
    16.0
    176.0


    30-06
    8.5
    155
    7.7
    7.8
    160.1

    165
    11.9
    18.8
    223.7

    178
    12.3
    20.0
    246.0

    220
    13.1
    22.6
    296.1


    7.82 PATRIOT
    8.5
    150
    13.4
    23.8
    318.9


    300 DAKOTA
    9
    200
    14.7
    30.3
    445.4


    300 WIN MAGNUM
    9
    150
    13.2
    24.2
    319.4

    180
    13.9
    27.1
    376.7


    300 WBY
    9
    150
    14.3
    28.7
    410.4

    220
    15.7
    34.3
    538.5


    300 WARBIRD
    9
    180
    15.8
    34.9
    551.4


    300 PEGASUS
    9
    180
    17.2
    41.5
    713.8


    8 X 57 MAUSER
    9
    170
    9.3
    12.1
    112.5


    8 REM MAG
    9
    220
    15.0
    31.3
    469.5


    330 DAKOTA
    9
    250
    17.2
    41.4
    712.1


    338 LAPUA
    9.5
    250
    16.9
    41.9
    708.1


    338 W MAG
    9.5
    225
    14.7
    31.9
    468.9


    340 WBY
    9.5
    250
    17.0
    42.6
    724.2


    338 A-SQUARE
    9.5
    250
    18.3
    49.6
    907.7


    338 TITAN
    9.5
    225
    17.5
    45.4
    794.5


    338 EXCALIBER
    9.5
    250
    19.4
    55.7
    1080.6


    358 STA
    9.5
    275
    17.2
    43.6
    749.9


    9.3 X 62
    9.5
    286
    14.1
    29.2
    411.7


    9.3 X 64
    9.5
    286
    16.1
    38.3
    616.6


    375 DAKOTA
    9.5
    300
    17.4
    44.9
    781.3


    375 H & H
    9.5
    300
    16.2
    38.8
    628.6


    378 WBY
    10
    300
    20.0
    59.0
    1180


    375 A-SQUARE
    10
    300
    19.9
    58.4
    1162.2

    416 DAKOTA
    10
    400
    20.0
    62.1
    1242.0


    416 REM
    10
    400
    19.3
    57.9
    1117.5


    416 RIGBY
    10
    400
    19.7
    60.3
    1187.9


    416 WBY
    10
    400
    22.3
    77.1
    1719.3


    10.57 METEOR
    10
    400
    22.6
    79.1
    1787.7


    458 W MAG
    10
    500
    18.6
    53.6
    997.0


    450 DAKOTA
    10
    500
    22.5
    78.7
    1770.8


    450 ACKLEY
    10
    500
    21.7
    72.8
    1579.8


    458 LOTT
    10
    500
    21.4
    71.1
    1521.5


    460 A-SQUARE
    10
    500
    23.6
    86.3
    2036.7


    460 WBY
    10
    500
    25.7
    102.2
    2626.6


    470 RIGBY
    10
    500
    21.6
    72.7
    1570.3


    470 NITRO
    12
    500
    18.0
    60.6
    1090.8


    475 # 2
    12
    500
    18.3
    62.6
    1138.3


    505 GIBBS
    12
    525
    20.6
    78.8
    1623.3


    500 NITRO
    12
    600
    20.5
    78.3
    1605.2


    495 A-SQUARE
    13
    600
    20.2
    82.2
    1660.4

    500 A-SQUARE
    13
    700
    22.8
    105.0
    2394.0


    577 NITRO
    13.5
    750
    22.2
    99.2
    2202.2


    577 TYRANO
    13.5
    750
    28.3
    168.5
    4768.6


    600 NITRO
    14.5
    900
    23.7
    117.8
    2791.9


    700 NITRO
    15
    1200
    21.7
    109.8
    2382.7


    700 NITRO
    18.25
    1000
    28
    235
    6580
     
  2. BangFlop

    BangFlop AH Senior Member

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    Nice post - shows relative recoil .... :cool:
     
  3. mikeh416Rigby

    mikeh416Rigby AH Senior Member

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    Well, it's nice to know I wasn't imagining things. :D
     
  4. MarineHawk

    MarineHawk AH Senior Member

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    Many of these seem way out of line to me. For example, a 416 Wby bullet has a little more than twice the momentum of a heavy 30-06 bullet (a bullet twice as big going about the same speed or slightly faster). Thus, even assuming the two rifles were the same weight (usually, the 416 will be heavier, which reduces recoil energy), the recoiling 416 Wby rifle will be travelling rearward about twice as fist as the same-weight 30-06 rifle. Energy (including recoil energy) is proportional to the square of the velocity. Thus, roughly, I could see a 416 Wby having a little more than 4 times the recoil energy than a 30-06. When I went to Weatherby's data, I see that it shows the unbraked 416 Wby producing a little more than four times as much recoil energy than a 30-06. So, that's consistent with my rough calulation. However, the data quoted above shows that a 416 Wby recoils more than 28 times harder than a 30-06. I don't think that can be correct. The 416 Wby recoils hard, but not like 28 30-06 rifles all at once.
     
  5. monish

    monish AH Elite

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    Michael,

    Damn informative post !! never imagined the shoulder takes so much of thumping , going to be cognizant now when .460 Weatherby goes off my shoulder .

    Monish
     
  6. browningbbr

    browningbbr AH Enthusiast

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    Relative Recoil

    I spent yesterday afternoon shooting off-hand practice with my 300 Win Mag and 416 Rigby.

    Based on the figures posted, the relative recoil for the 416 is 3x that of the 300. This sure "feels" right after 20 rounds through each of them!

    Thanks for doing this post - great information.

    - browningbbr
     
  7. monish

    monish AH Elite

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    Hi Marine Hawk,

    Hows your new 375 weatherby doing, tried some shots thru it ????


    Monish
     
  8. michaelhh375

    michaelhh375 AH Veteran

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    Hi Marinehawk. There are some different ways to calculate, but there are also some laws you must follow to calculate, like Newton Law. Check out this webpage : Rifle Recoil

    Good hunting.
    mikehh375
     
  9. Mike70560

    Mike70560 AH Fanatic

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    What law of physics is being followed by taking recoil energy times recoil velocity?

    There is no way felt recoil from a 416 Rem is over twice that of a 338 Win. There is not no way the felt recoil of a Lott is 50% more than a 416 Rem. I own all three and have shot them all in the same sessions. None with muzzle breaks, none with recoil reducers. Felt recoil on my Lott is actuall about the same as the 416 and seems to be less than my 470 even though it develops more muzzle energy than both.

    A properly designed and fitted stock along with proper shooter technique will allow you to shoot rifles above the "1000" mark in the index very comfortably.
     
  10. MarineHawk

    MarineHawk AH Senior Member

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    I hope I'm not sounding argumentative, but I do have a degree in physics, and know how to calculate the recoil energy of a rifle which is what I believe the relevant consideration. And a 416 Wby produces maybe 4-1/2 times the recoil energy of a 30-06, not 28.6 times as much recoil energy.

    The top post says that the final number is computed by "multiplying the recoil velocity by the recoil force." I do not think that really is correct. Perhaps they mean "velocity times recoil energy," which is what Mike70560 suggested they did, and I agree with Mike that there is no basis for cubing the velocity. If so, they are using the following formula: 1/2 x M x (V-cubed). Where M is the mass of the rifle and V is the initial rearward velocity of the rifle. This is a fairly simple calculation. To make it, you just take the mass of the buillet and escaping gases and multiply that combined number times their exiting velocities. Then, you divide that number by the weight of the rifle to get the rearward velocity of the rifle. Then, you would plug that number into the formula above. It's a simple calculation, but I think it's flawed. I have never heard of cubing the velocity in order to determine the impact of recoil or any other destructive force in the Universe. I suspect that is what they did here, and I do not think it is scientific. It overstates the importance of the rearward velocity (which already is squared in the recoil energy formula (1/2 x M x V-squared)) by one order of magnitude. That's how you get the 416 Wby recoiling 28 times more than the 30-06.

    The people computing those numbers almost certainly did not acheive their final numbers by "multiplying the recoil velocity by the recoil force." Force is mass times acceleration. The "recoil force" would be very difficult to calulate and would vary considerably during the recoil process. So, someone would have to have considerable scientific laboratory resources to calulate this number (the rearward accelleration of the rifle) and then would have to pick some arbitrary moment at which to take that data. And then, they would have to multiply that number times the velocity at that precise moment. And then, that number does not make any sense for trying to quantify the recoil impact. I would bet money that they did not actually do that, but rather they mean "recoil velocity times recoil energy" (not force), which as I suggest above overstates the significance of recoil velocity by cubing it. I apologize for being disagreeable, but I don't think either of those methods are sound for determining the impact on a shooter of a recoiling rifle. I think recoil energy does that much better. Just my own $0.02
     
  11. MarineHawk

    MarineHawk AH Senior Member

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    Hi Monish.

    I just picked up my rifle yesterday (my "instant" background check did not go through all day Saturday). I barely got to look at, or touch, it before putting it in the hands of a smitty--to insall an 11-oz mercury tube and a forearm sling swivel for mounting a bipod (I likely will use the bipod in Alaska, but not Africa). The smitty says it will be ready in about a couple weeks. Then, I will start out with the 300gr NPs and 260gr ABs, and then perhaps try out some opther custom loads later this spring. I got a new (my first) chrono and a lead sled to sight in and determine the accuracy of the rifle alone, before I start intensely practicing my field shooting (sort of a USMC refresher), and intend to blow up some watermelons and 5-gal jugs of water for fun with both my 375 and my 340.
     
  12. michaelhh375

    michaelhh375 AH Veteran

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    RECOIL

    Hi again.

    As you can understand the recoil for 3006 has a small error it says 60,1 when it should be 160.1...Also bullet weight is wrong, add 100 grain thats why huge diff....rest I belive can be rather correct. ( typing error ) I just copied from web....

    Mike

    Mike
     
  13. monish

    monish AH Elite

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    Hi Marine Hawk,

    Geart Great Great !! The rifle would shoot well ,try firing it off hand without the bipod or shooting bench, and get your shoulder used to the wallop as the bite would be lil more than your 340.

    happy shooting a fine rifle !!!

    Monish
     
  14. MarineHawk

    MarineHawk AH Senior Member

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    Okay. Thanks.
     
  15. MarineHawk

    MarineHawk AH Senior Member

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    Will do. Thanks.
     
  16. billrquimby

    billrquimby AH Veteran

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    Has anyone ever tried to factor felt recoil based on the size of the shooter? It's not scientific, but I've noticed that small men and most women don't seem to be as recoil sensitive as I am. I am six four and weigh closer to 300 pounds than I'll admit. The .300 Win Mag is my upper limit for comfortable shooting.

    Bill Quimby
     
  17. monish

    monish AH Elite

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    Bill,

    You are correct the recoil bites too much may be being taller as I stand six three and at times the wallop of my 460 Weatherby does punch hard, but same is not the case with my double 470 , your post query needs to be deciphered .

    Monish
     
  18. dharding

    dharding AH Member

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    Another way of doing it...

    Very informative post. I'd like to add:

    "For every action, there is an equal and oposite reaction"

    So if you want to compare apples to apples, look at bullet energy.

    400gr .416 Weatherby Magnum = 8778 Joules
    220gr .30-06 Springfield = 4042 Joules

    I'd say you'll be looking at double the kick from the 416, if the rifles were identical.

    Nice info available on wikipedia List of rifle cartridges - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  19. MarineHawk

    MarineHawk AH Senior Member

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    The recoil energy for two rifles of equal weight in different calibers will vary roughly proportionally to the square of the momentum of the bullet. The equal, but opposite reations are momentum--momentum is conserved. Thus Mass x Velocity of the exiting bullet/gas = Mass x Velocity of the recoiling rifle. Since the rifle weight is constant, the higher the M x V of the exiting bullet/gas--the higher the recoiling velocity of the rifle. Recoil enegergy is proportional to the mass of the rifle but also proportional to the square of its rearward velocity. Thus, the recoil energy will increase roughly proportional to the square of the momentum of the exiting bullet/gas.

    Thus, it's not the energy but the momentum that produces recoil energy. The square of the momentum is M-squared x V-squared. The energy of the bullet is 1/2 x M x V-squared. Thus, when you have two bullets (one big and slow and one small and fast) that produce equal energy, the lighter/faster bullet will have less momentum and thus will cause less recoil energy than the heavy/slow one if rifle weight is constant.

    Thuys, a 30-06 ought to recoil more than a 270 Win--even though the 270 produces a little more energy.

    A 45-70 standard load recoils more than a 25-06 even though they produce about the same energy.

    Of course, many think the smaller/faster bullets recoil a little more than the formulas above predict because they think the recoil happens in a more compressed time frame. I'm always a little skeptical of that because I find most 12ga slugs recoil worse than my 340 Wby. But that's just annecdotal.
     
  20. Big5

    Big5 AH Enthusiast

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    Bill. . . I feel quite fortunate that I am not recoil sensitive. But being a big man of 6-3/270 I too have noticed the very same thing. I think it's because people of smaller stature are more inclined to 'roll with the punches' while we big men are more likely to 'put our shoulder to things', so to speak.

    When it comes to shooting I long ago learned to 'roll with the punch' rather than 'put my shoulder to it' and get hammered. After that recoil has never been of any real concern.
     

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