Ok which is a better choice

Discussion in 'Up To .375' started by billc, May 5, 2011.

  1. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    After reading some of the post on here about what is enough gun.I was going to take a 270 for my son to shoot like springbuck or impala and use a 300 win mag for kuda,zebra.His 270 is a thompson pro hunter so was thinking of getting a 338 win mag barrel or 375 barrel.First question is there enough difference between the 300 and 338 to take them or is the 300 enough.I also have 7mm weatherby I could take instead of the 270.Second if I went right to the 375 instead of 338 what would the recoil be like for him he is only 12.He shots a 50 cal muzzlerloader with 3 pellets an is fine with that recoil.From what I am understanding the recoil of the 375 may not be any worse then the 338 mag.thanks for any help
     
  2. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    The recoil of the .375 is more than you want to hand to a 12 year old I would think. .338 is borderline and so is the .300 mag really, unless he has been shooting at least an '06 for awhile. His .270 should be good for all PG, though light for eland if hunted and besides you will be there presumably with another heavier rifle if needed. If you dont think the .270 is enough, get him started on a .308 or .30-06 and skip the magnums.
     
  3. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    I think the 300 Win Mag is more than enough...especially with 180 bullets.

    I own a 338 Win and a 375 H&H and would not recommend them to a 12 yr. old. I think the 50 cal muzzloader is comparable to a 300 Win Mag...at least that's my perception from shooting both.

    I like the 7mm Weatherby, with Barnes Bullets, I'd take that any day of week. :)
     
  4. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH Legend

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    Well I can't speak for your son, I can only speak for mine. My 13 year old who may weigh 100 pounds on a good day shoots a .308 pretty well. He hasn't done just a tremendous amount of shooting however he hasn't complained about shooting even 180 gr loads. That said, I wouldn't move him up to a magnum caliber at this point. Jumping up too fast could easily result in your son developing a fear of the gun that could take a long time to overcome.

    For the animals you listed, the .300 is plenty enough gun from what I've seen. I used that caliber on kudu last year and the critter went all of about 50 yards and died. Broadside shot with a complete pass through, the offside hole about the size of a quarter. I didn't shoot zebra to my dismay, but I wouldn't hesitate to do so with that caliber. I watched an African hunting show recently where a woman dropped a zebra with the .270. I would think that a little light, but the zebra didn't think so.

    If your son is getting along with that .270 well and you want to move up a bit, I think I'd consider the .30-06 shooting either 165's or 180's. A step up, but not a huge one in recoil.
     
  5. Mark H. Young

    Mark H. Young AH Senior Member

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    billc,

    I have to agree with the other posters. A step up to a 308 or 30-06 is about as far as I would go for a 12 year old. A 308 loaded with 180 gr. premium bullets will kill any kudu or zebra dead as a door nail with proper shot placement. The 300,338 and 375 would be a significant jump in recoil.

    On a first safari for your son I would also recommend you bring just one rifle that he is intimately familiar with and shoots well. Keeping things simple will make your hunt more fun.

    Mark
     
  6. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Thanks for all the tips.I was worried the recoil would be to much going to the 338 or 375.I am thinking the 7mm with 160 grain noslers maybe just a touch better then the 270.Then 200 grain noslers with 300 win mag should be good for all we want to hunt on this trip.
     
  7. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    I could not agree more!

    The 7mm provides, a little flatter shooting, more penetration, and greater bullet expansion...than a 270. If he shoots it well take it! 200 gr.Noslers in the 300 Win Mag will flatten most animals.
     
  8. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Bill you'll be there before me but I'll tell you how the .270 does on all the Plains Game later.
    We are loading Barnes MRX 150 grain and Barnes TTSX 130 grains instead of our usual soft pointed fair.
    I am confident everything will drop.

    PP's quote says it all. "I watched an African hunting show recently where a woman dropped a zebra with the .270. I would think that a little light, but the zebra didn't think so."

    If he shoots that 270 well, put some good bullets in it and he'll knock them all down.
    Good luck
     
  9. Thunder head

    Thunder head AH Enthusiast

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    I think the muzzleloader recoil is a shove, all the magnums have a sharp kick. The muzzleloader dosnt bother me, the .300 does.

    I would bet most PHs would rather the young man shoot his .270 accurately, than a bigger caliber hes scared of.
     
  10. nsok

    nsok AH Veteran

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    I do not know your son but It seems to me that a 300Win Mag is too much gun and too much recoil for a 12 years old boy. 270 will be fine
     
  11. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    I think the 270 is enough but I guess with that post on here was starting to wonder some.I think he can handle the 7mm but will let him shoot some rounds through both an decice.I am thinking I should start leraning how to reload to make the most out of his 270.Anyone have any good loads worked up already.
     
  12. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    55.5 grains RL19 MRX 150 grain federal Match Primers
    It is a half grain over max. But that is what shoots best from my gun. 1 inch groups at 100.

    54.0 Grains H4350 TTSX 130 Grain Federal Match Primers
    This one is the best so far. Shooting 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards. Prone, not from the bench.

    Hope that is a starting point for you.
     
  13. Bert the Turtle

    Bert the Turtle AH Enthusiast

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    As far as the adequacy of a 300WinMag, given that a 30-06 will kill everything on the list, I'd say it is more than enough. More isn't necessarily better; especially for a youngster it could be worse. If you want to turn a happy trip into a terrible experience for him, give him a gun that beats the hell out of him. At that age, he will desperately want to "man up" and deal with it to impress Dad and show that he is no longer a little kid. But he sure won't enjoy it.

    For plains game, if the 270 with a good bullet (Barnes, for example) doesn't kill it, I doubt a 338 or 375 will solve the problem. Yes, a 338 or 375 will allow him to make shots from worse angles, drop animals faster, and hit harder than a 270 will, but if he waits for a good broadside shot, and stalks to a reasonable distance, and shoots straight, a 270 will do the job. If it doesn't, it is more likely because it didn't hit the vital triangle than because of a ballistic failure. He's not likely to shoot the 375 better than the 270, so I really don't see the advantage for a 12 year old. If he were 70 and unlikely to ever return, I can see using a heavier rifle so that he can take marginal shots. At 12, he has time to be patient and if he can't get a decent shot, learning to let them walk is part of the process as well. Take the money you'd spend on hardware and get a copy of The Perfect Shot and have him read it cover to cover. He'll get more out of the trip and enjoy it more than learning to shoot a 375.

    There seems to be this idea in America that animals in Africa require way more gun than they really do. I'm not sure if it has to do with poor bullets, poor shooting, poor understanding of shot placement, or poor authors trying to become rich authors by increasing the glamor of the subject material. Africa is wonderful enough without turing a Wildebeeste into a Panzer.
     
  14. JamieD

    JamieD AH Veteran

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    First I would say it is great if you decide to reload but, I feel that it really isn't needed. Much of the bad press that the 270 and 7mm mags get from Africa is Americans tenancy to use softer lead core bullets. In the western US this works fine because the range is usually 100- 300 yards and in the animals here the lunges are farther back in the chest. So you can stay behind the shoulder.

    In Africa the shots can come at very close range, 30-70 yards if you are in the bush. The lunges are farther forward so you may shoot through the shoulder. Doing this at close range at 270 or 7mm mag speeds is very hard on standard bullets.

    If you use premium bullets the 270 is a fine PG rifle I have used Fed. ammo with the barnes 130 grain TSX in the States a lot with good results on deer. A better choice may be Feds. 150 Trophy Bonded Tip I think that it would expand to a larger size thus giving a larger wound channel. I have not tested this but would think that a 270 150 grain trophy bonded tip would preform similar to a 30-06 or 308 with a 150 barnes TSX. This would put it in very good company.

    A 30-06 with a 165 or 180 grainer may be better but for anything up to eland I think that you are set fine with good bullet placement.
     
  15. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Thanks again for all the tips.I am not into trying to kill my kid with recoil.I have taught him to not take any shots that maybe good only shots that can be good.If we leave an animal walk so be it.We do shoot alot and not just before we go on a hunt.He will have taken min. 200 shots before this trip.We shoot alot and practice from 50 yds out to 300 yds at the range.I like to shot all animals through the shoulder even here in the states.Breaking the shoulder and still hitting vitals seems to work best in my book.I am going to find a 150 grain 270 bullet and see how it works in his gun.Right now we have been shooting a 130 grain but just for target shooting.I like the heavy grain bullets for hunting.Thanks again everyone
     
  16. trigger creep

    trigger creep AH Enthusiast

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    First of all, I have never been to Africa, so I can't tell you how well certain cartridges work on plainsgame. However, I am only 14 years old (just turned 14 a week ago), so I can tell you how much recoil I can handle.

    I have used the .270 for awhile now, and I am very comfortable with the recoil. In fact, I almost can shoot as good as my dad with the .270! But then I bought a .308 Norma mag (.308 norma is basically a .338 Win mag necked down to .308 diameter) a few months ago, and I couldn't shoot 4" groups at 100 yards! For the fisrst 3 shots I did fine, but after that I couldn't shoot good at all with it. I shot it over 60 times and finally told my dad to sell it, because I couldn't handle the recoil. I ended up developing a minor flinch, which I got rid of by shooting the .270 a few times.

    IMO, I would rather hunt any Elk, Moose, or any plainsgame animal in Africa with my .270 that I can shoot, than a .300 mag that I can't. I'll just stick to the 150 grain bullets and hunt the stuff I'm interested in hunting.
     
  17. Bert the Turtle

    Bert the Turtle AH Enthusiast

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    Christian, you may have the recoil tolerance of a 14-year old, but you have the mental maturity of an elder statesman. Few young men your age are able to admit limitations. Because you can, you will find that ultimately you have far fewer limitations than your more macho cohorts.
     
  18. sestoppelman

    sestoppelman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Ditto Bert, Well put!
     
  19. trigger creep

    trigger creep AH Enthusiast

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    Thanks for the comments Bert and Sestoppelman.


    BTW, I also would like to add something to my previous comments: Any person (boy,girl, or adult) will kill far more game with a .270 that they can shoot, than a .300 Win mag or .338 mag that they can't. A .270 in the right spot, sure beats the heck out of a .300 mag in the guts. If you can shoot the .300 win mag well (which most people can't), then you are better off with a .300 WM, but most people can't shoot it well and would be far better off with a .270. In fact, most people that use the .300 Win mag develop a flinch and end up wounding or completely missing game.
     

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