Non Trophy Elephant SA 2012

Discussion in 'GREAT DEALS on Hunts Worldwide' started by lbgsafaris, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. lbgsafaris

    lbgsafaris AH Veteran

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    1 X Non Trophy Elephant $7500.00
    14 X Hunting days @ $450.00 per day
    Total cost $13800.00

    Additional cost
    Observer fees @ $200.00 per day

    Province: Limpopo

    Area: Alldays

    Day fees Includes

    1. Service of a Licensed Professional Hunter

    2. The service of trained trackers

    3. The service of trained skinners

    4. Hunting vehicle

    5. Field preparation of trophies

    6. Transfer by road from Polokwane or nearest airport to
    camp

    7. Accommodation, meals and soft drinks as well as beer and wine in moderation

    8. Daily laundry service

    Day fees do not include

    1. All air travel before and after the contracted period of the Safari
    2. Accommodation and travel charges incurred before and after the contracted period of the Safari

    3. Transfer by road from O.R Tambo international airport (JHB) to camp. ($350.00per group)

    4. Trophy fees for animals taken or wounded

    5. All air charters
    6. Gratuities to Professional hunters and other staff members

    7. Preparation, packing, documentation and export of trophies
     
  2. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Bosman, Will we be able to get a export permit for this Ellie or is it on a problem animal tag as issued by Nature conservation?, Non trophy does this mean there is a limit on size "have seen big bulls cross from Bots"? Or does it mean non exportable? Just wanted to clarify as I do Know that one can hunt the cross border Ellies as they come over the Limpopo.
     
  3. lbgsafaris

    lbgsafaris AH Veteran

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    Hi Jaco

    By non-trophy I mean that the client cannot export the trophy. Although the permit is issued in the clients name he may not cross any border with any part of the animal there is no CITES permit involved. Some people do have property or shares in property in South Africa and they are more than welcome to have the trophy as long as it stays in South Africa.

    These Elephants are hunted on management/DCA permits. There are a huge amount of Elephants crossing the Limpopo River causing a lot of damage.
    There is no size limit involved, there are more and more Elephants crossing the river and larger bulls cross each year.
    The average size you can expect is around 35 to 40 pounds although 50 to 60 pound has been taken in the past.

    Thank you Bossie
     
  4. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Bosman had a feeling that there would not be a cities, I am familiar with protocol and regulations just wanted to clarify,

    Thanks again.
     
  5. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Jaco, thanks for asking the questions.

    Bosman, NON EXPORTABLE Elephant may help us all understand better.
    I usually understand "Non Trophy" to be something without horns or tusks. Over here it is usually something with smaller antlers or none.

    I'll add a question or two to the mix:
    If I have a friend with property in Limpopo and KZN RSA can I leave the trophy [70lb tusks and skull :) ] at his place?
    By Border crossing do you mean provincial or international borders? Non CITES, I assume international.

    Thanks
     
  6. Frederik

    Frederik AH Enthusiast

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    Brickburn as long as it stays inside the Republic of South Africa it will be fine. But the holder must just have a copy or the original of the permit issued for that specific elephant.
     
  7. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Frederik, thank you. That was my guess.
     
  8. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Guys I am talking under correction but my interpretation of the law is that the holder of the ivory needs a permit stipulating his/her name?? Once again this is my interpretation of the law, I do not intend to step on any toes.

    My best always.
     
  9. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Jaco,
    Thanks.
    What section are you interpreting in the "laws" . Any reference?
    Limpopo Ordinance's or TOPS?
    Better safe than sorry, specially with ivory!
     
  10. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Bricburn, my interpretation of the law falls within provincial legislation, the person in who's name such a permit has been issued should be the designated ( legal) hunter. Bearing in mind that "TOPS" regulations do not overide provincial legislation but counts in addition to such regulations, I do understand that a so called donation could be made but surly that should involve a certain legalising document stating so called "change of ownership" thereby legalising the safekeeping or display of the mentioned ivory.

    I will go further and get back to you with a concrete answer/solution.
    My very best always.
     
  11. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Thanks Jaco.
    I'll see if I can find it in the pile on my desk.
     
  12. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Guys after some searching this is the conclusion, Brickburn, you may hunt an Ellie in the Limpopo on a DCA (bearing in mind that it is non exportable) should you wish to donate the mentioned ivoryto a South African friend, he will however have to have a possesion permit, and possibly a "TOPS"the reason why I am saying possibly TOPS is because some provinces have intergrated permits, I am not convinced that Limpopo's TOPS are intergrated.

    Long story short he will need a possesion permit to hold such ivory with the matching serial number as issued by the relevant Authorities and in some provinces he will need an additional TOPS.

    Hope this answer your question.
     
  13. lbgsafaris

    lbgsafaris AH Veteran

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    Good day Fellow hunters and outfitters

    Seems like there is some confusion amongst some of us. I hope I will be able to clarify some of the questions asked.

    Brickburn don't get me wrong but to be honest we both know what the Outfitters mean with NON TROPHY this is not the first time you saw the word NON TROPHY on the Forum. But if you wish to call it NON EXPORT you are more than welcome to do so.

    I'LL ADD A QUESTION OR TWO TO THE MIX:

    IF I HAVE A FRIEND WITH PROPERTY IN LIMPOPO AND KZN RSA CAN I LEAVE THE TROPHY [70LB TUSKS AND SKULL] AT HIS PLACE? You are more than welcome to do so you are the lawful owner of the tusks and hides of such an animal.

    BY BORDER CROSSING DO YOU MEAN PROVINCIAL OR INTERNATIONAL BORDERS? Border crossing will be International border.

    NON CITES, I ASSUME INTERNATIONAL. Non export CITES means CONVENTION on INTERNATIONAL TRADE IN ENDANGERED SPECIES of fauna and flora.

    There is three ways to apply for a permit to hunt Elephant in South Africa. First of all Elephants are listed under the TOPS regulation Threatened Or Protected Species. Although they are not listed under the species list it states the following 鉄CHEDULE B2: Other Protected Species All species listed in the Appendices of CITES making the Elephant one of them as they are listed under the APPENDIX 2 of CITES. The TOPS law is a National law that covers the whole of South Africa and not only the province they are hunted in.

    ONE, You apply for a CITES permit to export an Elephant, once you have been approved for a CITES permit you then apply for a TOPS permit to SPORT HUNT the Elephant with a CLIENT. The trophy can be exported out of South Africa.

    TWO, You only apply for a TOPS permit to SPORT HUNT such an Elephant. This will allow the land owner to sell the hunt to either a local hunter or a client. On the application the outfitter must fill in the name of the person who is going to shoot the animal he is also the rightful owner of the trophy. If it is a local hunter the hunter will take the trophy to Taxidermy for safe keeping until Nature conservation stamps the tusks, only then may the hunter have the tusks in his possession. If the hunter is not resident to South Africa in other words he is a CLIENT the outfitter must submit a letter to nature conservation that the CLIENT does understand that he/she may not export the trophy and that the CLIENT will donate the trophy to whoever he likes to donate it to or he provides an physical address where the trophy will be kept. The CLIENT has to provide a copy of the permit and a donation letter to the person he donates the trophy to. Then the trophy must also go to a Taxidermy to have the tusks stamped. a Nature conservation official will also be present at all times.

    THREE, The land owner applies for a DCA permit to hunt the Elephant. a DCA permit will only allow the land owner or an official of Nature conservation to shoot the animal. The trophy of such an animal will be handed over to nature conservation.

    Now although the Elephants I am hunting are Damage Causing Animals I have applied for a SPORT HUNT permit allowing me to sell these hunts. I have applied for two permits for 2012 of which one is already sold.

    Thank you
    Bossie
     
  14. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR GOLD BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Thanks Jaco.



    Bossie, Thanks for the clarification.
     
  15. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Lbg no confusion at all, if a non SA citizen would like to leave the ivory in kzn he is more than within his right do so, keep in mind even this non exportable ivory should be stamped and registered and the holder of such ivory( no matter who shot the mentioned ellie) needs a possesion permit and possibly even a tops depending on the province.

    Without this the keeper of the ivory whether it is in his house lodge or shop, would be in possesion of contaband( unregistered ivory)

    This has nothing to do with your hunt and should cast no shadow, it is handy though if you or anyone else intend to keep such ivory.
     
  16. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Lbg, To clarify we are not doubting your hunt nor are we discussing the legality thereof, simple pointers on what should be in place to donate the ivory to a friend.

    Non trophy ellies in bots, and zim are cosidered 35 lbs or less and comes with an export permit, I would most definitly say non exportable, No one is trying to critic but it does leave room for confusion especially amongst new members reading the posts, thats all.

    My best always.
     
  17. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Lbg as a side not I get 4 Hunting permits for 4 ellie ON kwalata every year I market the in Norway, finland, Sweden as well as the US they are all non trophy, they are all cows that I take and all come with a CITIES and are legally exported, I would most definitly agree with Brickburn on non exportable.

    My best always
     
  18. lbgsafaris

    lbgsafaris AH Veteran

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    Hi Jaco
    You are 100% right the hunter may leave the ivory where ever he likes.
    TOPS is a National law, No matter where you are in South Africa you need a TOPS permit to HUNT or KEEP a TOPS listed animal.
    By law you need a TOPS permit even if the animal was shot ten or twenty years ago. For an example farmers had the right to shoot Leopards on sight, if a Farmer has a Leopard trophy that he shot before the law was changed he now has to apply for a TOPS permit to keep the trophy. He applies for a POSSESSION permit.
     
  19. Jaco Strauss

    Jaco Strauss AH Elite

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    Dankie ou maat hope you guys have a roaring season, u going to the US, maybe we'll have a beer or twenty two.....;-)
     

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