male lion hunting must be banned

[jayefe]

Derrick joubert from natgeo films estimates 550 trophies exported from africa;with the declining number of lions in africa isn't time to ban hunting?
We have enough buff and other tasty antelope protein to hunt , rather than sit in a blind and shoot at a baited target ! Hey that can't Be hunting; for sure is just shooting but in any case why destroy our top Predator then parade a picture in the style of the last of the great white hunters?
In the last 5 years I have been to zambia south luwanga and saw no lions during a week ;then in mozambique gorongosa only saw 2 males; zambia again in kafue Had to walk hard to spot a male and a lioness that upon seeing took off in great haste ; only in kruger and kgalagadi here in south africa have I seen lions on a more regular base; what a tragedy.
Every male shot surely must contribute to their falling numbers!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Ban male lion hunting and instantly create a new black market? It seems to me there's a better solution than that.

 

[classicsafari]

The National park Safari Area and Reserve that I have taken Lion from had no shortage of Lion.
If it was up to me there would be more Safari Areas (game reserves that allow hunting ) and reduce marginal farming and grazing areas which would no doubt increase game numbers and the tourist dollar that comes with it.
Don't blame the Tourist hunter for bad management and overpopulation.

 

[LouisB]

Good point Phil!

Gentleman I think it is very important to remember that the very people who hunt these lions, do so with a quota and I would like to believe that most also try and take old males.

Should you take out the person who’s livelihood depends on hunting wild lion you will surely lose the money that is used to employ game scouts, trackers…….. there will be less of a need to monitor wild lion populations and less money invested in these programmes, and defiantly open the door to illegal trading because the less activity we have on a day to day basis in these wild areas to easier it would be for poachers to move in and out.

The lion bone trade is a very real threat to the future conservation of wild lion populations.

I have hunted the South Luangwa and have seen numerous prides of lions the wild lion population looked in pretty good shape but that was more than 3 years ago.

Jayefe I am sorry to hear that you did not see any lions, but if I may ask how long were you there for did you not even see tracks?

Best Regards
Louis van Bergen

 

[Frederik]

The moment you start banning one specie to be hunted they will start with a long list of species untill we have nothing left and they ban hunting completely.

Name one specie that as been pushed to extinction in the last 50 years by sport hunters ???
Like Ozhunter said there should be more safari areas the problem starts with more people less place for wild animals lions get into contact with them and get killed its not the hunters fault.

 

[classicsafari]

Derrick joubert from natgeo films estimates 550 trophies exported from africa;with the decliningnumber of lions in africa isn't time to ban hunting?

###absolutely not, the money from trophy hunting is a major contributing factor for their conservation.
Typical banter from a non hunting eco's. Talk to people like the Carnivore Project in Niassa Mozambique. They understand the contribution to wild area and its inhabitance by tourist hunters.##

rather than sit in a blind and shoot at a baited target ! Hey that can't Be hunting; for sure is just shooting but in any case why destroy our top Predator then parade a picture in the style of the last of the great white hunters?

##What a load of non hunting crap. obviously you have never experienced it.##

In the last 5 years I have been to zambia south luwanga and saw no lions during a week ;then in mozambique gorongosa only saw 2 males; zambia again in kafue Had to walk hard to spot a male and a lioness that upon seeing took off in great haste ; only in kruger and kgalagadi here in south africa have I seen lions on a more regular base; what a tragedy

##In the past Ten years I have been to many parks including Luangwa (only two days there and saw a few Lion).
Wankie Nat Park, seen dozens. Niassa Reserve, seen dozens. Chewore safari area, Dozens, Serigeti/Ngorongro, plenty. Chobie, plenty.
In non hunting Kenya I saw no lion in Amboseli or Tsavo which can be attributed to the fact that the lion is a pest to the local people who view Lion with no value.##

Every male shot surely must contribute to their falling numbers!

##Lion reproduce quickly BUT they do need extensive Range. if this range has farm stock on it, well I'm sad to say the lion is not going to last. BUT this has nothing to do with Sport hunting.
The taking of old Lion (over 5 years of age) has been found to have little effect on the lion numbers due to the fact that these old lion rarely hold a pride this late in life, thus not producing off spring.
These old Trophy Lion will soon die of starvation or killed by other Lion, Hyena or Wild Dog. Taking of these animals will have minimal impact on populations BUT the Tourist hunting dollar will go far to save these great animals and their home range.###

 

[jayefe]

well classic safari i talk my load of crap and you talk of yours ; keep to your side of the story and i keep to mine ;i will continue to hunt my venison and biltong and if that is what you want then do your sitting at blinds shooting at male lions as targets ! so my view remains that the shooting /killing of male lions must be banned !

 

[Mike70560]

Jayefe,

First of all welcome to the forum if you really are a hunter. If you are one of Joubert's stooges we will know soon enough. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, mine is the same as Classic Safaris. The problem is not hunting. It is human over population, poisoning, and poaching. As stated above, their are plenty of lions in properly managed hunting areas. Stop hunting and lions will lose their value. Once this happens they will be killed as vermin or poached for the illegal trade.

 

[jayefe]

Hi Mike70560, thanks for the participation and your feedback anyway ; yup as you say each one is entitled to an opinion ; i believe in all that empirical evidence and scientific studies and that all that you mentioned is affecting the dwindling population of the african lion ; you just missed in my opinion the hunting of 500 to 600 trophies on average a year ;as to the nat geo wild films - yes i just enjoy watching and still have many vhs originals starting with the lions of savuti ; i was actually in savuti in bot on holiday a few years ago but never ever met Derrick Joubert ; i still believe that he is right in doing what he does and i would personnally support money wise, any initiative to ban the shooting of our top predator in africa ; i rather take venison and kudu biltong than lion meat; jayefe

 

[Bushbuck]

Jayefe, You are right, we are entitled to our own opinion. To be honest mine is that you are no hunter, and you joined here just to push your misguided propaganda. But again, that just my opinion.

If you honestly care about wildlife, you should study what has happened to the wildlife in Kenya as a direct result of the anti hunting crowd. It should also outrage you when someone attempts to stop hunting in other countries using the Wildlife numbers from there to promote the agenda that actually decimated that population.


Had to walk hard to spot a male and a lioness that upon seeing took off in great haste ; only in kruger and kgalagadi here in south Africa have I seen lions on a more regular base; what a tragedy

Well that is the way it is supposed to be. True wild lions do not act like the tourist trained lions of Kruger or Disney's wild kingdom animal safari. Walking hard for some people is 30 yards from the truck. I wish you the best of luck and hope you do not succeed in ending the value and current working conservation programs for lions. Please, don't pass the kool-aid this way.

 

[jayefe]

Hey bushbuck howizit boet? I had a good laugh at your feedback but yes I take it seriously; 230 yards iff the truck ? Hey in kafue we walked the whole day and when we spotted the male and lioness they were gone in a second! Better I took a 4 day walk in the kruger and we managed to spotted the 2 male lions the traking was superb by the head ranger and his shaangan tracker aj I actally fimed with my old sony the exact spot of the spoor of one of the males fresh as it could be they had just managed to keep ahead of us ;
My cloosed hand on top of the spoor was not enough to cover it; yup awasome stuff ; don't worry about the ban because it will happen anyway ; as far as I can I have on my personal capacity written to cites and some selected conservation organizations to support the ban on hunting of male lions and I will support with money whenever I can; no propaganda the venison I got last season was 'kudu,impala,mountain reedbuck, warthog; best is reedbuck ! Doyou want recipes? Cheers for now !

 

[Bushbuck]

A good klap in the states is child abuse, In Africa it is called promoting education. I feel you are in need of a good African Klap.
Consider one sent by the Internet. Cute opening, but I am not your brother.

The title to this thread is not a request for information, discussion or feedback. It is a simple minded demand. That shows me your true agenda. We use PH's not rangers, and I am pleased to see you have read a few articles about using your hand to judge the size of spoor. I believe you are correct, a ban may actually happen as the world has many more uninformed followers than it should. But hey as we say here, "you cant fix stupid".

You may be able to brainwash some into believing that you are a caring hunter so this thread will stay alive promoting your anal bloviating. but I don't buy it.

 

[35bore]

double klap

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I think I've detected troll spoor.

 

[Frederik]

+1 Phil,

If he was a true hunter he would know he does more good than harm to animal numbers.

 

[jayefe]

of course i contribute to the conservation of game ; i hunt them for the pot ! i am convinced that with your rationale you might be speeding up the momemtum and i still will see the day the bunny huggers and animal rightists will get you guys to shoot at paper lions off the blinds ! hey in my hunting club we call that postal shoot and we use springbuck , warthog or impala all demarcated for the point system ; all light stuff !

 

[hunting]

jayefe would it be ok with you if we hunt only female lion?
Johan

 

[Blue Skies Hunting Adventures]

Ban male lion hunting and instantly create a new black market? It seems to me there's a better solution than that.

Agreed. This thread does seem to have a funny smell to it.

 

[classicsafari]

Jayete,
I have enjoyed hunting Lion by tracking and Bait&Blind. Both types are amazing hunts that a "must" experience for a hunter.
Do you really think the poor African governments such as Zim and Mozambique are going to retain so many Safari areas and not turn them into farm land for the poor masses if they do not produce the foreign income. And no not just the small non hunting National parks, as by them selves they can NOT sustain sufficient numbers of big game for the long term.
I bet one of my Safaris generate more Conservation income that ten years worth of your donations.

 

[LouisB]

Jayete,
I have enjoyed hunting Lion by tracking and Bait&Blind. Both types are amazing hunts that a "must" experience for a hunter.
Do you really think the poor African governments such as Zim and Mozambique are going to retain so many Safari areas and not turn them into farm land for the poor masses if they do not produce the foreign income. And no not just the small non hunting National parks, as by them selves they can NOT sustain sufficient numbers of big game for the long term.
I bet one of my Safaris generate more Conservation income that ten years worth of your donations.

Well said Classicsafari!

Best regards
Louis van Bergen