Lion hunts in RSA

Discussion in 'Hunting Africa' started by JamieD, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. Red Leg

    Red Leg GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    "This was overturned by a vote from the floor ( All members and hunting outfitters )
    to the current 7 days release and 1000ha."


    I hope this is understood by some of the erstwhile lion "hunters" in North America. Whatever this is, it has nothing to do with hunting, and there is no way the best public relations consultant at SCI could spin it to an already skeptical non-hunting public. This practice can indeed only have an adverse impact across our sport. What is particularly disturbing to me, is that this practice only exists because of demand. Regardless of what PHASA does, hunters could bring this nonsense to a halt quickly by voting with their dollars. Regrettably, both of my hunting organizations (SCI and DSC) are essentially encouraging the practice.

    Here too, it is a very small minority of our membership supporting this specialized industry; a small group more concerned about killing a lion for their collection than the ethical conduct of the hunt. In this age of instant information, our adversaries, both here and in Africa, will only gain ever more solid traction against our sport in general with a lot more Botswana's on the near horizon. That will affect not only the lion collector, but also the family saving for a lifetime for a PG hunt.
     
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  2. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    Red Leg, I agree it doesn't paint a pretty picture. Great anti material.

    It was my understanding over 8 years ago that a few 100,000 acre high fence places were suppose to be created with longer release periods, 6 months or more. I thought it could happen, but it never will. Money is always the issue. Plus more than one person said how are you going to get 50000 to 100000 in one spot.
     
  3. shakari

    shakari AH Enthusiast

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    As I said before, it's the wilding period rather than the land size that is most important..... but the REAL answer is to ban ALL captive lion breeding throughout the continent so that only wild lions can be hunted.

    If captive bred lions don't exist, they can't be hunted. - Simple!

    I'll bet that last comment will bring a few squeals of outrage but the truth is, it's the only way we can be sure the practice is stamped out.
     
  4. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    No, not surprised at all, just look at the tone of your posts.

    Steve, you have no plans to save the current wild population either.............

    I see the lion, like the rhino....just disappearing because no one cared.
     
  5. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Yeah it would be real smart to give in on the lions because I am sure the anti's will stop then.They will keep going after hunting and will be plains game next.

    then next the place that stock pheasants.Anyone really think I did not want my son to hunt wild birds like I did growing up.There not around so stocked birds is all there was.Did he enjoy it hell yes.

    There goal is to stop hunting period raised or wild is all the same to them.

    Hunters againist hunters because some dont like certain ways is only hurting all us hunters period.The system is not pefect but seems to get better as the years go along.the bad get weeded out and the honest outfitters do there best to make it a fair and fun hunt.

    I am still hoping I can take my son on the lioness hunt with paw print this trip.I can tell everyone pieter is not doing it for the money he is making.He is doing it for my son to enjoy a lion hunt and one we can afford.Do I know it is not the same as hunting some lion on million of acres of coarse I do.Will we still have fun and my son will enjoy the hunt Hell yeah.I did say hunt not shoot also.
     
  6. shakari

    shakari AH Enthusiast

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    Who said I don't have thoughts on the problems facing the wild lions? - The reason I've hardly mentioned them is because it's an entirely different problem with entirely different solutions (if there are solutions) but certainly nothing to do with the subject in hand.......... Which incidentally, and as I've previously said, I view as one of the biggest threats, if not the very biggest threat to true sport, trophy hunting throughout the continent.

    I'm not giving these guys kak because I enjoy it....... I'm giving them kak because I like to think the next generation will get the chance to enjoy what I've enjoyed in years gone by and I reckon the shooting of captive bred lions could well put the kibosh on that one day.


     
  7. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    The original post is lion hunts in RSA. It's changed coarse.

    Honestly Steve, people are listening, what can we do as hunters and conservationist do to save huntable wild lion populations?
     
  8. shakari

    shakari AH Enthusiast

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    I don't think there's one single solution for all of Africa and think it's more a case of a variety or combination of solutions but I'm not a zoologist to don't know any more about the solutions than anyone else - But I do know Africa and Africans so will say, it ain't gonna be easy....... but perhaps that's a matter for a separate thread.

    I'd like to think the responsible hunting of wild lions will play a part though.

     
  9. Red Leg

    Red Leg GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    "Hunters againist hunters because some dont like certain ways is only hurting all us hunters period."

    I respectfully disagree with you Billc. If we don't police our own sport, I assure you the antis will indeed find plenty of folks to help us police it. For the present, except for the PETA lunatic fringe, most non-hunters seem to be able to draw a distinction between phesants and lions. Probably has something to do with fried chicken. I refuse to tie my privilege to hunt to defending the "freedom" for someone to shoot a half-drugged animal who was released a week before by humans who were up to that moment caring for it.
     
  10. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    I very much agree.

    We are only giving the antis ammo against trophy hunting in Africa if we support the short "wilding" periods that is usually conducted when it comes to captive bred lion hunting today.

    I am not able to defend it how it is often done now when non-hunters and even other hunters ask me about the subject.
    If a minimum of 3 months wilding period was implemented, I will defend the captive bred lion hunting as long as I am able to breath.
     
  11. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    They dont need help policing us they do that everyday.Plus dont think for a minute they think diferently on a pheasant or a lion.In there eyes all killing is wrong.

    Your casting a big net thinking all raised lions are drugged before hunting.Can things be made better sure and that is the point.Everyone can help make the system better with out loking like all we do is fight as hunters because some dont like this or that.Would it be nice if they could be released alot early yes is the answer.In time maybe that will be done but it takes time to make everything right.Right now we all look like fools because we fight with each other instead of just againist the people trying to stop hunting.

    They try to stop bear,lion,wolves in the states never even hear about the raised lions like everyone makes it out to be.They dont like hunting end of story.
     
  12. Gary01

    Gary01 New Member

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    Well all I can say is I am starting to look for a lioness hunt. High fence hunting is here to stay. Too many people, too few game. If it wasn't for a canned hunt I would not be able to afford a Lion hunt. For me it will be the trophy of a lifetime! Don't care if it gets in any record book. Just to have in my game room is good enough.
     
  13. Hank2211

    Hank2211 GOLD SUPPORTER AH Veteran

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    Why do some people want to ban captive bred lion hunting, but have no problem with captive bred cape buffalo, or sable, or any of the other species which are captive bred on a daily basis on game ranches particularly in South Africa but also elsewhere in Africa (and in North America when it comes to deer and elk for that matter)? I for one don't see the distinction. Yet one brings outrage, while the other seems ho hum. If it's because one animal is more photogenic than the others, they we're just playing into the hands of the antis everywhere.

    Isn't - or shouldn't - the issue be not where the animal was born, but whether it has a chance to get away? And I can tell you - having done it - that hunting a lion on the ground is exciting and, if done properly, the animal can get away. These hunts rely, though, on the fact that the lion is basically lazy, and wants to rest up most of the day. So he doesn't want to run away, at least not very far. Bump him enough and he will eventually wait for you. Having been charged by one we bumped once too often for his liking, I can tell you if he was drugged, I would hate to be charged by one that wasn't. Is this fair? I'd argue it's a lot more fair than baiting animals and sitting in a blind waiting for them (and I've done that to, for leopard). What chance does a lion which has been baited have to escape? Relying on a lousy shot by a nervous hunter? Relying on a miss or worse, a wounded lion which puts those who have to go after it (generally not including the inept hunter) at serious risk? And this is somehow better than putting yourself on the ground with the lion?

    I am sorry, but done properly (no drugs, a reasonable size area), I believe that tracking lion on the ground, captive bred or not, is far more sporting than baiting and shooting from a blind.

    And if you want to try to appease the antis, well, that a lost cause. They don't want us to hunt fairly, they don't want us to hunt at all.
     
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  14. hunting

    hunting AH Enthusiast

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    Gary you are more than welcome to send me a email regarding a lion hunt we hunt more than 20 lion in South Africa per year and do have very good lion hunting. Some members for AH did hunt lion with us in the past.
    Johan
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2014
  15. Big5

    Big5 AH Enthusiast

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    Correct me if I am wrong, but the way I interpret your post is that the placement of a mounted object for display in your ‘game room’ is of paramount importance to you. Your desire to accomplish that objective in the most affordable or only way possible (a “canned hunt”, your words) seems to override any real concern as to the size of the enclosure, the wilding period or number of days allocated for the ‘shoot’. At least you made no mention of such things.

    To each his own, but I find the actual hunting of game to be what it is all about and therefore paramount. Things such as taxidermy mounts fall secondary. I must also be fortunate in that I can easily forgo a hunt, or anything else for that matter, when I feel it is too costly or downright unaffordable. I’m well grounded in knowing that I just can’t have everything in life and am therefore quite thankful for what I do have.

    Again, to each his own.
     
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  16. enysse

    enysse AH Ambassador

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    True happiness for me at least revolves around being happy with what you have. You appreciate what others have without getting bitter and jealous. If it was important to have what others have then you go out and try to achieve it. Some things to me are not worth the journey.
     
  17. Bwannabe

    Bwannabe AH Member

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    I just arrived back from RSA. The President of the RSA lion growers, is in the USA testifying before a committee this week.
    one outfit Benkoe Lion Safaris has over 500 lions to release for hunts.

    I was there June 9, 2014. A lion in a 2000 acre pen is no joke, the lion will evade you and went wounded will attack.

    Bunny huggers want to put the cartoon animal emotions into the wildlife and they dont understand the wildlife. My PH was Leon Small and Korbus Gobler.
    Safari 2014 2014-03-10 018.JPG
     
  18. spike.t

    spike.t GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    jerome i need the popcorn and feet up with coffee smileys while i wait..............................................
     
  19. Vevew

    Vevew New Member

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    Wow, Bwannabe . That is a very young lion, I can see that from the color of its nose. Doesn't South Africa have any restrictions when it comes to lion's age? It also looks like a white lion, and white lions don't exist in the wild. Canned hunts don't have any conservation value.

    By the way, Here's a couple of peer-reviewed scientific studies showing that trophy hunting has a very negative effect on lion populations because in many places the quotas are so arbitrary and because hunters only kill the healthiest lions and lions in their prime. One study is from 2010 and the other is from September last year (2013).

    Effects of trophy hunting on lion and leopard populations (2010)

    The Trophy Hunting of African Lions: Scale, Current Management Practices and Factors Undermining Sustainability (2013)

    If you are about to go hunting, please check the game reserve's wildlife management plan. You might be contributing to the extinction of lions.
     
  20. Guépard

    Guépard AH Member

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    Vevew,
    Please can can you tell us more and we explain how to judge the age of the lions by this criterion ?
    Thank you !
     

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